Primary on Monday

[Renegade One]

... I think sometimes we as students get too wrapped up in the little things; or maybe its just me!

It's not just you…it's called "attention to detail". I think that's how the program was designed.

I have a question for all of you instructors out there...why do some instructors give out straight MIF/ straight 4's/ whatever, and offer no debrief?

No debrief would, I think, be something akin to a "major instructional fail". I can't explain or defend that.

I know many others have said "no worries": "no debrief means you're fine…", but I just think that's wrong. You prepared in advance…you sweated the small stuff…you brought your best game that day, you performed the required [whatever]. To not even get a "coffee pot" debrief is just…wow.

CAVEAT: Nothing's going to change because I think it's wrong…any longer.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

The T-6 cockpit was great for navigation, but the only guys who will have anything similar in the fleet are E-6 pilots.

The next upgrade the E-2 is supposed to include an all-glass cockpit:

Granted, they're not in the fleet yet, but people entering the pipeline this year may see it enter service by the time they start their sea tour (expected mid-2015)

 

[Swanee]

I'm waiting for my Aero solo now. On my 4604 and 4790, I had 4 on nearly every aero maneuver, and on the ones that I got a 3, the instructors offered me a great amount of detail on what my trend was and what I needed to correct to bring it to a 4.

My first 3 aero flights were accomplished with the same instructor, in addition to a night contact. I enjoyed flying with him a great deal; it was a nice change of pace from Contacts. However, aside from 5's on the briefs for the aero flights, I was MIF'd on everything. The grades don't bother so much, except that we didn't have a real debrief and he left virtually no comments on anything I did.

The one particularly puzzling thing was the night contact. I've had a 5 on every brief since 4201 with maybe 2 or 3 exceptions, and had a 5 on all 3 aero flights with him but a 4 on the night contact brief. In the plane, he said my landings on the night contact were the best I'd had with him all weekend, but I had straight 3's on the landings after getting 4 on the aero flights. So, naturally, I wonder what I did differently at night OR if he just MIF'd the grade sheet because nothing memorable happened either way.

I imagine that because we got back later on a Sunday night, he just wanted to get home. I understand and respect that, but without a chance to debrief and without any comments on the grade sheet regarding anything I did, I came away feeling like I didn't really gain anything but being able to see what I'd been practicing at home.

5's on briefs bro? Are you showing up to the brief with nice cigars and 15 year single malt scotch or stuffing a couple hundred dollar bills into your IPs gear before you go flying?


I don't think I had more than 1 or 2 in my entire flight school career.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

He was getting 4's, but then he started putting North seeking arrows on the white board, and it pushed him over the edge.

 

[zippy]

5's on briefs bro? Are you showing up to the brief with nice cigars and 15 year single malt scotch or stuffing a couple hundred dollar bills into your IPs gear before you go flying?
I don't think I had more than 1 or 2 in my entire flight school career.

I think you just said a lot about your briefs there bud I vaguely remember having to weigh a RRU for your IFR Lost Comms FIH procedures with taking you on CCX to Key West... you're lucky it was Key West. My last Marine onwing got 5s on his brief on a regular basis. He couldn't fly worth a damn in contacts but his briefs were steller.

 

[wlawr005]

Thanks all for the sound reasoning and advice. I think sometimes we as students get too wrapped up in the little things; or maybe its just me!

Just the opinion of another student: I've found that for every 5 I thought I deserved (and didn't get) there were probably 100 4's that I got when it could've been much worse.

 

[zippy]

Just the opinion of another student: I've found that for every 5 I thought I deserved (and didn't get) there were probably 100 4's that I got when it could've been much worse.

Fact.

 

[e6bflyer]

I will have to say that I agree with R1 on this one that no debrief = fail. Students need real, meaningful feedback in order to make themselves better. That being said, was he giving you continuous feedback in the plane and maybe didn't feel like repeating himself? The Sunday night rush to the door is understandable, but it should at least be prefaced by a cursory debrief hitting any items that should be worked on.
Night contacts = exposure. I wouldn't worry about the grades on those flights too much. It is your first time landing at night and it isn't supposed to be great.
5 on a brief? I gave out a few, but they were well deserved - a well prepared board, items were briefed to me rather than the other way around, answered my questions quickly and correctly, you get the picture. Some guys, especially new guys, are going to be tight with those 5's. Like everyone has said, it should all average out.

 

[Erin M.]

My instructor gave me some feedback in the plane on the first hop particularly with the aerobatic maneuvers, but the last three seemed more like, "let's get up there to knock out the high work and get out to our destination."

Like I said before, I didn't really mind the grades at all. I just didn't like that I didn't have any comments/criticism so that I can focus on my shortcomings.

I wasn't trying to come across as ungrateful for the grades.

I don't particularly mind it now. Aerobatics is such a short part of primary flight school anyway; I probably would've been more concerned if it was an early contact or instrument flight.

 

[Erin M.]

Just the opinion of another student: I've found that for every 5 I thought I deserved (and didn't get) there were probably 100 4's that I got when it could've been much worse.

This is very true.

 

[e6bflyer]

My instructor gave me some feedback in the plane on the first hop particularly with the aerobatic maneuvers, but the last three seemed more like, "let's get up there to knock out the high work and get out to our destination."

Like I said before, I didn't really mind the grades at all. I just didn't like that I didn't have any comments/criticism so that I can focus on my shortcomings.

I wasn't trying to come across as ungrateful for the grades.

I don't particularly mind it now. Aerobatics is such a short part of primary flight school anyway; I probably would've been more concerned if it was an early contact or instrument flight.

Your quality of instructor is going to vary, just like the quality of your co-workers. A lot of guys, especially heavy weekend flyers, are in it for the hours and X's, not because they love what they do. PA's are actually a very important phase, and you should be getting thoroughly debriefed and even nitpicked on landings and other contact stage maneuvers that you should have mastered at this point. I know I have definitely been the victim of the get home syndrome after a long week of flying and landing late on a Sunday night. You have to return your gear and aircraft and do six gradesheets and debrief. That shit takes a long time and your energy level may not be 100%, especially after a harrowing taxi from South Whiting.
Here's the thing: Bitching about it, while it feels great, isn't going to change anything. Take your lumps and move on (sounds like you get that part). He may actually be a great instructor, but IP's are human and are prone to getting burned out. You will hopefully have a better experience on subsequent flights.

 

[scoolbubba]

Don't worry, soon I will be there to make it rain MIF.

 

[jollygreen07]

Don't worry, soon I will be there to make it rain MIF.

Fucks yes.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Don't worry, soon I will be there to make it rain MIF.

New instructors are MIF monsters, while an instructor that has been in the TRACOM for more than a year will grade more in line with the grading standards. When you are going throughout the IUT, ask other instructors and STAN instructors for advice and then after you first start flying as an instructor, ask other instructors for help on grading. "The standards say this and this is what the student did...what do you think the grade should be...."

Side story: our new XO was about to give out a pink sheet to a student but after we broke out the grading standards, and explained MIF for that event in that particular stage, the student actually met MIF.

BTW, Students have gouge on all of the instructors from other students....and instructors have gouge on all the students from other instructors....it's a two way street.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Jim123]

BTW, Students have gouge on all of the instructors from other students....and instructors have gouge on all the students from other instructors....it's a two way street.

You may be giving both parties a little much credit with such sweeping generalizations

(Although that is basically true regarding both certain studs and certain instructors who could be described as "exceptional.")