Power, wave off, abort, $#%$, Eject!

[nittany03]

^^ Zing!

 

[Brett327]

So you are saying is being an ECMO is like having Herpes ... in what ways?

The "you'd never admit it to a girl at the bar" way,

The "You try to hide it from your friends out of embarassment, and those that do know make fun of you for it" way or

The "You made a serious of bad decisions that led to it and now you have to live with it" way?

That's good stuff.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

Back to the original post .... well ........ while we don't KNOW anything about it .... we can still look at the PLAT tape and consider some things:
(*edit* all times are off the video clip -- not the PLAT)

1. The pilot had 242 hours in type and 24 night traps. Still kinda "new" ... but not really "green" ...

2. He was a former S-3 driver ... we can safely assume he's familiar with the BOAT .... and night operations ... at least reasonably so ....

3. He called the ball @ 30 seconds out .... sounded "comfortable" and "normal" to me ...

4. Got a "Roger Ball" call 2 seconds later .... 28 seconds out ...

5. Looked "good" until 13 seconds out ... started to settle ... no further LSO calls from 28 seconds until @ 12 seconds .... so I can only assume the LSO's were "comfortable" with the progress of the pass up to that point ...

6. Got a 1 1/2 power calls @ 11-12 seconds out ... I say 1 1/2 because it sounds like the controlling LSO and the Senior LSO stepped on each other's POWER calls ...

7. Got a "WAVE-OFF" call one second later .... @ 10-11 seconds out ...

8. Hit ramp @ 10 seconds ....

9. "JESUS CHRIST" call by LSO(s) @ 9 seconds ....

There is NO WAY the ramp strike could have been averted between 10-12 seconds on this pass ... not nearly enough time to make the calls, process the commands, respond to them, and the aircraft to move .... up.

Just ain't gonna happen ...

He looked "good" until 13 seconds .... and then came down like a brick. What the hell was THAT all about ???? When THAT happens it's usually 'cause the pilot is holding the ball on the lens with the nose --- and not with the PCL. That's a plan for disaster. But without knowing anything about the pilot or his history ... it would only be speculation. The LSO's were not prompting the pilot, however ... they didn't seem to anticipate .... they were reacting. But again ... the pass "looked good" from the ball call to @ 13 seconds out. The pilot made NO noticeable (I said "noticeable) response to the power/wave-off calls .... it was too late --- I doubt if he could.

I usually tended to be "more involved" with my guys' passes when I waved ... chatted with the pilots more -- especially if they were "new" ... to relax 'em. Not bother them ... just make sure they were "responding" and "engaged". Call it a nervous twitch on my part, call it what you want. But I was ALWAYS on top of every pass and I never waved a ramp strike or any injuries, a/c losses, or fatalities. Everyone has their own style ... that was mine. It worked ....

So who's responsible??? We can't know based on the PLAT ... but it seems like some players were "late" and some players were "unresponsive" .... again, I'm just talking from the Monday Morning Ready Room Commando viewpoint of what's there on the PLAT (that's all any of us can do) and from the 20/20 perspective of one who has waved and controlled thousands of passes.

Carrier aviation is a dangerous business, especially at night. The LSO's MUST know their pilots (all of 'em --- the whole AirWing) .... they MUST be credible and skillful ... and the pilots MUST focus and follow their training --- not their instincts .... and the pilots MUST ALWAYS trust and listen to their LSO's, especially at night.

Flying at the ship is a blast. It's the best flying you will ever experience. Flying at the ship is hard at night, but the ramp is even "harder" .... the secret to success:

FLY THE BALL AND LISTEN TO THE LSO !!!

 

[alert5]

Here's a comment from someone who was on board when the incident happened.

Watched that live... I think I said "Holy Sheet" among the group that looked up (I was typing an email) at the TV after another guy said "***".

Karl was right about the findings. You'll note the AB coming on about 1.8 seconds after the waveoff call. Also some leadership issues -- weather was BAD with thundershowers all around, we hadn't flown in a week (Brisbane port visit) and CAG thought his direction of "no nuggets" meant "no transition guys" (who, by the way, have a significantly higher mishap rate until they get 1000 hours in the new aircraft... I made it!) but the squadron interpreted it differently.

Also, Reagan had MANY lens / Approach system issues and over time (and seeing similar, though non-mishap passes) we discovered that the lens was mis-installed and one of the gyros would go bezerk on occasion, causing the touch down point to cycle from 350' down the deck to 100' AFT of the ship (target was 125' I think).

The pilot impacted the ship, and thought he had trapped. So, all you armchair guys that said he "saw he was (insert babble here) then...", go back to your hobby desks. He hit, the jet breaking up absorbed the impact and started to decel. He knew he was low but thought all was good until Boss (who had been his S-3 squadron CO) called "Eject Eject Eject" and the jet started to roll left. He was outside the envelope (about 30 degrees left wing down) but the seat worked like a champ. As a matter of fact, only about 3 people actually saw him eject (we never saw it on the live PLAT feed and thought he was a gonner). He had his boots on the flight deck about 8 mins after the mishap.

The OOD of the ship was a dumb*** and called away "man overboard", so rather than get the flight deck cleaned up pronto everyone had to muster. Duh. We ended up having the tanker drag a bunch of jets to Brisbane (with hot guns since they were supposed to go strafe a target in Oz but cancelled due to weather) for the night, the E-2 and most of the Rhino's had the gas to hang out and recover later.

Not a good night, and the jet sank in a couple thousand feet of water.

The pilot, a great dude, stood SDO for about 2 months so his bro's could concentrate on flying over Iraq, then he was sent back to the FRS to re-CQ and joined us at the end of the deployment. He's still flying and doing fine.

 

[Pitchlock]

CAG thought his direction of "no nuggets" meant "no transition guys"

Sounds like a guy trying to cover his a$$ after the fact...

The man over board call doesn't seem out of line to me. The plane could have swept someone into the water along with it. Or caused someone to jump. But I'm only guessing since I have no carrier expr.

 

[KSUFLY]

Back to the original post .... well ........ while we don't KNOW anything about it .... we can still look at the PLAT tape and consider some things:...words

FLY THE BALL AND LISTEN TO THE LSO !!![/SIZE]

A4s...no ass kissing here but thank you for the description.

 

[A4sForever]

A4s...no ass kissing here but thank you for the description.

I just like LSO'ing and talking about it. It's good ...

Don't worry about "it", son ... I don't .... it seems the only guys who do take umbrage are the ones wound too tight in the first place. It never changes .... when "they" don't get "their" perceived share of the "light". I've cruised and flown with their older counterparts .... and it never changes, like I say.

BUT: (no pun) IF .... you guys are gonna' kiss my ass, I will at least request that you gargle first ...

 

[KSUFLY]

Okay...

 

[bunk22]

We had a pilot booted for night performance in the C-2A back in 98/99. Thing is, he flew great during the day but the nightime boat stuff just wasn't his thing. At the time, VRC-40 flew day only at the boat (always has) and one would have thought he could have just transfered over. We all felt that due to not being one of the boys of the CO may have played a part. Thing is, I don't recall him having a FNAEB. Maybe he did but being a nugget, I didn't really get involved. I just read his boat performance being one of the squadron LSO's (got my squadron qual later on). He never flew the C-2 after the fact so he may have had a FNAEB and received an A2 decision

 

[Recovering LSO]

why make a marine prowler pilot CQ? I thought they didn't go to the boat?

I think this may have already been answered but here's another take on it:

There's nothing one can do in a Prowler (and I would submit in any aircraft) that is more challenging than night carrier landings. If we can get a Marine Prowler driver trained up to the point where he/she can go out and do this, then, theoretically, there is nothing that he shouldn't have the confidence to go and do during the rest of his flying career.

Several of our (VAQ-129) recent "Top Hooks" have been Marines.

 

[squorch2]

So here's a question... since day 1, I've been taught "waveoffs are free." Are they not free for F/W boat ops?

 

[A4sForever]

... since day 1, I've been taught "waveoffs are free." Are they not free for F/W boat ops?

Whoever told you that was suffering from a mental disorder.

The only "good thing" about a wave-off is that you are still alive to do it again --- and do it right this time .... they HAMMER your grades and your boarding rate.

Or are you thinking about a "fouled-deck" wave-off, perchance to dream ... ??? Those would be "free" ... unless YOU brought it upon yourself by being too short in the groove ....

 

[FrankTheTank]

So here's a question... since day 1, I've been taught "waveoffs are free."

They are free versus the alternative---> Death

But if they were really free then they would be 'No Counts' not 'Wave Offs' when it comes to greenie board grades!

 

[hscs]

They aren't free for RW guys either -- you need to be able to get into any LZ on the first pass -- it doesn't matter if it is going to be really dusty.

 

[MasterBates]

On small decks they may cost you Green Deck and another 10 minutes orbiting.