Plebe Hazing

[American_Ace]

What hazing/training/special attention do the plebes receive at USNA. Could someone give me some stories. Thanks.

P.S. if anyone could compare USNA to USAFA (after the 'more professional learning environment' has been instituted this year :icon_rage ) that would be cool as well

Thanks

 

[petescheu]

Don't even worry about it... the plebe program there is pretty much a joke these days. (Yeah yeah yeah, and I'm sure someone that graduated way before me will say the same thing about when we went through, I'll agree with you, it's changed a lot). I've heard kids say (that were in the program at the time) that it was a lot easier than they expected. It changed dramatically over the 4 years I was there in terms of the rules of what you could and could not do, and I'm sure it hasn't gone back to the way it was at all recently. "Hazing" in the traditional sense of the word is pretty much non-existant. You are in the PC Navy now...

 

[Integer]

Considering

Even if we did a scientific study and learned that students of this summer find it easy and students of a decado ago found it hard, this in NO WAY means that plebe summer has become easier!

Of course the current plebes would find it easier than before--they are more physical apt than those plebes of a decade ago! Students of this year were hand-picked from a larger pool of applicants than was available one decade ago.

That students find it easier than they expected could be due to a lot of information about the college becoming available in the past decade. The Candidate Book came out in 97, I believe. Since 1994, there have been web sites and forums to educate prospective aplicants about the quality of preparation needed. Special admissions officers and BGO's go to high schools to find minorities and other students who can join, thus increasing people's knowledge of the college and what they are getting themselves into. Finally, high school athletics are becoming more and more physical, and participants are on average bigger than their counterparts of 40 years ago. With candidates doing their part of adequate preparation and admissions finding the right people who can handle the load, [the assumed fact] that students find the school easier and more manageable than they expected could be considered a very positive sign, implying that the screening, recruiting, and candidate's own initiatives must all have gone right for this to happen.

As for changing policies, one could argue that many generations ago, the college accepted everybody and midshipmen drank, partied, and caused havoc all the time. Now, the people that the the college attracts are hard-working individuals who want to be secluded to study and shape themselves for four years. (Well, not really secluded.) So, the argument that can be made is that with these new future officers starting their 'careers' here who are aware about the situation they will be in--ones who can actually follow directions and not go crazy--WHY should the navy go as tough on them as they did on the drunk hooligans who ran amock many years ago?

Dealing with hooligans has been going on for the past two hundred years. A lot of superintendants had to work hard to get the school to the state it is today. The lack of a need for rigid policies is a positive sign, not a negative one.

Basically, it's not that the school is getting EASIER, that's misleading. Is it not more correct to say that the NAVY treats people the way they treat the NAVY? And that the rigid policies of a while back, and student hazing, was reflective on the worse state of the college in the past, and NOT a standard that we should try to meet with these current, brighter midshipmen, whom can be treated with RESPECT because they give RESPECT back to the Navy and to their peers?

To answer your question, Ace, in a way that we can all agree on, I will say this: for one reason or another, the Academy supervisors have worked their butts off to make the school more PC for the past hundreds of years, so I will guess that the school is a pretty controlled environment right now. (By 'controlled' I mean "orderly")

 

[Flash]

You have oh so much to learn. While I am not a graduate of the Boat school, I though I would post a response anyways.

Do you realize some of the some of those people who generations ago drank, partied and acted like hooligans were some of the finest leaders this nation has produced? Do the names Nimitz, Halsey, Burke, Stockdale, Bulkeley and the McCain family mean anything to you? If not, look them up.

When and if you get to the Annapolis (what the heck is a pre-appointee anyways?), please check the ego at the door. If not, the upperclassmen will do it for you.

Any of the drunk hooligans who ran amok on the banks of the Sevren want to add anything?

 

[Integer]

I do

I knew somebody would post something like that. I do know of almost all names you mentioned. But it doesn't mean that we can't do better! Doesn't mean that should be a standard, and it also doesn't mean that they couldn't have done an even better job had they had a more rigid experience, right? Nobody will ever know!

I didn't realize that this board is also PC. People complain about the Navy becoming PC but then when I stop being PC to post here to use the words drunken hooligans, I am jumped upon? Pick one, do you want PC or not PC?

There will always be amazing people in every generation. Those people were amazing for the drunken hooligan generations of the past. In the future, we will also have other great leaders, whether drinking is allowed or not allowed.

Actually, every history of ANYTHING always has 5 or so people who shaped the place or moved on to other things. It just so happened that in the past 100 years, drinking was a bigger thing in the Navy, and right now, it is more PC, and in the next 100 years, it will be even more PC. Not my fault, not McCain's fault, those are just the circumstances that change in different years. By the standards of today, we can definitely call him a hooligan, though

Obviously, I do know that McCain did stuff that should have gotten him kicked out of the navy if his friends didn't cover his butt for him: it's been documented. I respect the guy a lot. However, he WAS a hooligan and the others were drunks. YES IT WAS part of the way it was back then, but they were still hooligans or drunks. And I don't mean it in a derrogative way--I like using those terms to poke fun at the huge differences in PC over time. So NO they weren't different from their peers when they did that stuff, that's how it was back then. You can't blame them whatsoever or let that detract from their accomplishments, and I wasn't. But in the current navy class, I would guess that doing just a little bit of the stuff would make you a hooligan Whether we are PC right now or not, he was still a hooligan

I judge people on their deeds not on their color or whether they drink or not, etc. That's why I have no problem talking about affirmative action or blacks, whites, drunks, hooligans, etc because I don't consider those qualities important in a person to worry about being PC about because I don't think they define a person.

So when I said hooligan or drunk, I meant their behavior. I don't mean anything about their accomplishments, success, leadership, etc. Just about their behavior. Which is TRUE. I should have been more PC but I wasn't. I apologize.

I like learning and knowledge, and these talks bring up a lot of cool stuff to talk about

 

[Flash]

What makes you think the Navy has changed?

 

[HerrLURP]

There are opportunities to go get drunk and hook up with girls, but you got to do it off campus. If you get caught then you could get in serious trouble. So while USNA has its share of drinkers and partiers, it is NOTHING CLOSE to the scale you'd find at any other college, and not even close to being as frequent. No "Wacky Wednesdays," or "Dollar Pitcher Tuesdays," or "Thirsty Thursdays" at USNA. People here are just too busy to have time to get drunk that often.

As far as hazing goes, there's not much of that "yelling" and "screaming" and stuff anymore...but that doesn't mean that plebe year isn't tough. Some mornings you have to get up quarter past 5am to do plebe duties, you are constantly memorizing trivial information, you have little or no freedom, and it's overall a not-so-fun time.

 

[Integer]

Heh

Flash, it sounds like you are implying that I am under some image that everything is perfect with the Navy, or that it has changed at all.

I know enlisted and officers of all branches drink all of the time. This will probably never change. And I never said or implied whether I think it's good or bad. I try to be objective about things as I see them, so if I jokingly say 'hooligans' because that IS what the people were, it doesn't mean I am for or againt hooligans or what not. But yeah, I want to go to the academy because, like HerrLURP said, it is the easiest way to avoid being distracted by that stuff, whether I am for or against it, until my service career. Fair enough? And in the service, I will not go crazy with the drinking (not to imply that seamen do.)

However, if I was a teen during McCain's academy years, I would probably have a different view about drinking. Such is society and life

 

[Integer]

Wait, HerrLURP, so people literally don't even yell at you anymore? You mean even information from 97 is outdated? It's already CHANGED SINCE THEN? What kind of a military is this

I thought by PC people meant compared to 200 years ago. But PC compared to five years ago? There are big leaps every year? And Plebe Summer actually is easier?

 

[NuSnake]

guys, get over yourselves.....

 

[Integer]

I meant my last post. What do people mean by PC? And how is the USNA "PC" and unlike before? In what ways?

 

[American_Ace]

Thanks for the input. I'm asking because I'm reapplying to USAFA next year (Sorry, no NROTC at ASU, and I doubt USNA would accept an AFROTC cadet )

But if I get in (if I don't drink myself stupid), it will be a huge shock. I'm going to the biggest, craziest dorm (1500 kids in one building ) at one of the biggest, craziest schools in the nation (ASU... 50,000+ kids ) Oh God I can't wait

Anyway, thanks for talking about the 'hazing,' or lack-there-of nowadays. If anyone has anything to add, that'd be great too. Also, does anyone think the academy is better or worse-off without the traditional a$& kickings? Once again, thanks.

 

[Integer]

Well what do you think?

 

[flyr534]

Once again, im pulling my hair out screaming!!!! Hey Flash, I agree with you completely. This is a joke. All I get out of this is that academy people now are superhumans and those of the past are all drunks and trouble makers..... oh wait, we forgot about the OCS guys. They must be real pieces of crap. Im glad I found out im stupid and substandard from a "pre-appointee?"..........

 

[HerrLURP]

People yell at you, but it's nothing like you see in "Full Metal Jacket." You don't have people swearing at you left and right, although if you do something bad, you WILL get chewed out hardcore and ass-chewings suck even without them swearing and shouting at you.

I think the Academy is better off this way...I never quite understood how yelling and screaming at someone was supposed to motivate them to want to follow you, except out of fear. Now upperclassmen have to be more creative and inspire the young'uns in a much more professional, "lead by example," fashion.