Pilot Training & Squadron Bars

[HuggyU2]

"Bar culture" in military aviation sure has changed a lot over time.

At Navy pilot training bases, what's the ROE for SNA's in the squadron bar? I've been to VT-7's War Room a few times, but it's been a number of years, and things change.

My question is for all phases of training, but would guess it might be more of a factor in the Jet Phase. Are SNA's even allowed in the bar? If so, what are the limitations?

On the AF side, I've seen and heard of a pretty big shift in all of that at UPT bases. I believe the latest crackdown & knee-jerk was driven by a squadron bar event where someone was stupid and it went viral. https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...training-wing-for-failing-to-stop-misconduct/

Just curious, that's why I ask.

 

[DanMa1156]

As an instructor in the HTs, I never saw students in our "bar" / ready room unless we ran out of briefing spaces and they would set up for their instructor there after having gotten permission. With that said, the Wing put on several "cameraderie" events (probably 1x a month or quarter maybe) to have students and IPs intermingle in a social setting. There'd be pizza or Chic-fil-a and beer and we'd have a non-boring guest speaker, some cornhole, and just general mixing.

Whiting Field also has a poorly used bar, at least at one time known as "Jack's Aces." During my IP tour, it was only open on friday afternoons and would basically shut down when the crowd died down, which, varied from week to week and mostly depended on how many AMDOs and Ordie type folks were in session for classes. With that said, it is a nice bar - shuffle board, darts, cheap beer, popcorn, old helmets, models, rotors, posters, cruise plaques, and sometimes the AMDO classes would do up some BBQ (they did a whole hog once!) on the stationary grills. Due to the flight schedule, outside of soft patches, it was generally poorly attended, but I know my friends and I would try to make it a point to go and we'd encourage students to go as well a) to make them feel welcome, and b) so we didn't lose the bar.

 

[Renegade One]

Ah, the never-ending sad story of the untimely demise of Commissioned Officers' Messes (Open), AKA "O'Clubs"... where even students were welcome...and learned a lot of stuff never taught in the classroom.

 

[Griz882]

As an instructor in the HTs, I never saw students in our "bar" / ready room unless we ran out of briefing spaces and they would set up for their instructor there after having gotten permission. With that said, the Wing put on several "cameraderie" events (probably 1x a month or quarter maybe) to have students and IPs intermingle in a social setting. There'd be pizza or Chic-fil-a and beer and we'd have a non-boring guest speaker, some cornhole, and just general mixing.

Whiting Field also has a poorly used bar, at least at one time known as "Jack's Aces." During my IP tour, it was only open on friday afternoons and would basically shut down when the crowd died down, which, varied from week to week and mostly depended on how many AMDOs and Ordie type folks were in session for classes. With that said, it is a nice bar - shuffle board, darts, cheap beer, popcorn, old helmets, models, rotors, posters, cruise plaques, and sometimes the AMDO classes would do up some BBQ (they did a whole hog once!) on the stationary grills. Due to the flight schedule, outside of soft patches, it was generally poorly attended, but I know my friends and I would try to make it a point to go and we'd encourage students to go as well a) to make them feel welcome, and b) so we didn't lose the bar.

The old Whiting O club used to be quite active many years ago.

 

[HuggyU2]

Renegade One... you, Sir, are spot on. It is not just a shame, but a significant degradation in passing the Aviation Culture along.

I remember the guy here one AW that built the carrier-trap-thingy in the Club at Kingsville. I never saw it, but I thought it was pretty cool he did that. Does that thing still exist?

 

[zipmartin]

Renegade One... you, Sir, are spot on. It is not just a shame, but a significant degradation in passing the Aviation Culture along.

I remember the guy here one AW that built the carrier-trap-thingy in the Club at Kingsville. I never saw it, but I thought it was pretty cool he did that. Does that thing still exist?

I made a trip to Kingsville a year ago after having been absent for 37 years (winged there in '77 then instructed there '81-'84) just to see how much it had changed. Wouldn't have recognized much of anything. The O Club had been bulldozed over many years ago. I wandered over to the All Hands Club, or whatever it's called now, specifically looking for Master's King Kat. It was there, but by the looks of it, hadn't been used in quite some time. Sad.

 

[RoarkJr.]

For the War Room, new class on deck mans/maintains the bar a few afternoon/nights a week. As far as I’ve seen all are welcome. Seems like the whole thing was by the wayside for a while but just picked up again.

 

[Waveoff]

Our squadrons in MPRA don't even have a consistent spot in our own damn hangar. We "hot rack" 6 squadrons in 4 spaces and rotate them out when the next pair has to deploy. Always changing what spot you call home really keeps us from building up a set space with traditions and art since you have to tear it all down and put it in storage every 12 months. Jax has an O-club that seems like its really only used for food and occasional hail and bails. As far as a nice PFB is concerned...where there is a thirsty JO, there is a way.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Our squadrons in MPRA don't even have a consistent spot in our own damn hangar. We "hot rack" 6 squadrons in 4 spaces and rotate them out when the next pair has to deploy. Always changing what spot you call home really keeps us from building up a set space with traditions and art since you have to tear it all down and put it in storage every 12 months. Jax has an O-club that seems like its really only used for food and occasional hail and bails. As far as a nice PFB is concerned...where there is a thirsty JO, there is a way.

Is the T-bar still a thing in Jax? I was last there in 2011 but I remember a pretty good stint of drinking and playing dice.

 

[hdr777]

Renegade One... you, Sir, are spot on. It is not just a shame, but a significant degradation in passing the Aviation Culture along.

I remember the guy here one AW that built the carrier-trap-thingy in the Club at Kingsville. I never saw it, but I thought it was pretty cool he did that. Does that thing still exist?

King Cat still gets used, pretty much only at wingings, it takes a few people to run it, usually pool students.

 

[Odominable]

Our squadrons in MPRA don't even have a consistent spot in our own damn hangar. We "hot rack" 6 squadrons in 4 spaces and rotate them out when the next pair has to deploy. Always changing what spot you call home really keeps us from building up a set space with traditions and art since you have to tear it all down and put it in storage every 12 months. Jax has an O-club that seems like its really only used for food and occasional hail and bails. As far as a nice PFB is concerned...where there is a thirsty JO, there is a way.

HMLA was the same at Camp Pendleton, which kind of put the kibash on anyone doing anything cool since you'd lose it in a year anyway. The BOQs in Futenma have a famously good setup, and the FRS has a decent bar in an old tower since it doesn't move buildings. They've at least given a decent effort in making a good flightline bar, but it's still really only used for official functions. TBH, I don't think anyone can really bemoan the lack of an O-club scene in North County SD... kind of has a lot to compete with on a Friday night...

 

[zipmartin]

King Cat still gets used, pretty much only at wingings, it takes a few people to run it, usually pool students.

We used to have wingings every Friday. How often do they occur now?

 

[hdr777]

We used to have wingings every Friday. How often do they occur now?

Once a month

 

[villanelle]

Ah, the never-ending sad story of the untimely demise of Commissioned Officers' Messes (Open), AKA "O'Clubs"... where even students were welcome...and learned a lot of stuff never taught in the classroom.

Tanuki Tavern, the O-club bar in Atsugi, was quite active up until late 2018. Due to much of the air wing leaving and the base (and its already minuscule budget) shrinking, the chief's bar space was closed and Tanuki became a Khaki bar. That drastically cut down on the shenanigans (at the O level, at least) and changed the vibe considerably. (Unless it changed again after I left, which is certainly possible.) But before then, even I, a woman and dependent of A Certain Age who considered herself quite worldly, learned a few things. And won (and lost) more than a few games of flip cup, including against some intrepid young Air Warriors. I lost my voice more than once screaming to "Don't stop believing" in that bar, and danced for hours in that bar, and peed in some bushes on the walk home from that bar, and did shots of unknown origin and content in that bar, and drank from a bottle containing a snake in that bar (never mind the epic shenigans that happened in the women's restroom's elegant sitting area, which I won't share for the sake of those most involved) and probably did other things I can't or don't want to remember in that bar. Some of the most fun nights of my life were spent in that bar. RIP, Tanuki-as-we-knew it.

 

[Flash]

Tanuki Tavern, the O-club bar in Atsugi, was quite active up until late 2018. Due to much of the air wing leaving and the base (and its already minuscule budget) shrinking, the chief's bar space was closed and Tanuki became a Khaki bar. That drastically cut down on the shenanigans (at the O level, at least) and changed the vibe considerably.

The O'Club at Iwakuni was pretty new and relatively active, as long as most of the MAG was in town, most Fridays and Saturdays the last time I was there long ago. It was a bit on the small side though so I wonder what the setup with CAG-5 there now is.

Ages ago when I was in VT-86 students occasionally did our debriefs in the squadron bar, especially if it is on a Friday afternoon or weekend, it was the standard to do your final T-2 debrief there with a beer or two.