OCS Changes

[nsaxton]

Are you saying that the standards of OCS were changed in order to lower the level of the graduates. I may have misread that.

Best,
cac

YES OCS standards were lowered so that Academy and ROTC graduates would look competitive with the product that OCS is producing. In my opinion, since OCS was producing the best product, they should have raised the standards of the Academy and ROTC... but they lowered OCS standards instead!

 

[metro]

I have kind of been sitting on the fence about this, as I have 7 months, 18 days until report, but I guess I'll throw two cents in...

I don't disagree that OCS, ROTC, and Academy graduates should be (for all intents and purposes) on the same general level...but not by resorting to a regression and easing of standards in one of the areas, but, as naswings stated, by raising the standards of the Academy and ROTC. So personally, even as I stand poised to enter OCS relatively soon, I'm a staunch believer in the old way...I was always raised to believe, and have chosen, through experience, to believe, that anything worth doing is worth doing well, and the right way, regardless of how difficult (relatively or otherwise) it may be. And if I can't cut it, better to find out then and there, where so much less is at stake, than when I'm out at a command with people's lives or livelihoods at risk.

In short, I disagree with the "dumbing-down" of OCS. At best, it evens the playing field. At least, it will probably now saddle OCS grads with the same "social stigma" associated with Acad and ROTC grads (i.e., lazy, half-committal rich kids, or worse)...and here I was kind of looking forward to not having to hear a bunch of bullshit about how I got in "the easy way."

At worst, it's going to get people killed.

I suppose it doesn't much matter, though, as regardless of how we commission, be it ROTC, OCS, or Academy, we're all called Ensign. As with anything, it depends solely on the individual.

 

[Cornellianintel]

YES OCS standards were lowered so that Academy and ROTC graduates would look competitive with the product that OCS is producing. In my opinion, since OCS was producing the best product, they should have raised the standards of the Academy and ROTC... but they lowered OCS standards instead!

I sincerely hope that the Navy doesn't really work this way. If this is truly the case, forgive me for saying it's fairly ridiculous.

Best,
cac

 

[HH-60H]

YES OCS standards were lowered so that Academy and ROTC graduates would look competitive with the product that OCS is producing. In my opinion, since OCS was producing the best product, they should have raised the standards of the Academy and ROTC... but they lowered OCS standards instead!

Do you have any examples to support these statements?

 

[Logico]

YES OCS standards were lowered so that Academy and ROTC graduates would look competitive with the product that OCS is producing. In my opinion, since OCS was producing the best product, they should have raised the standards of the Academy and ROTC... but they lowered OCS standards instead!

You cannot seriously believe this!?

 

[IT1toOfficer]

No way... Not true...

 

[Logico]

I’m in OCS right now and some of the people that made it, shouldn't have.

For the past 9weeks some of my class mates have said to me... "What is this guy/girl doing here?"

I don’t think its getting easier at OCS, their testing things out to see what works and what doesn't.

I think that civilians should have officer interviews, just like enlisted, or they should have to send a tape into the board stating why they should be accepted and what they would bring to the Navy if accepted.

Just my two cents...

I can only speak from my own experience getting into intel BDCP but it seems amazing to me that there are flunkies at OCS. I say this because it was not easy getting in and it took me a total of 13 months. I had 3 interviews, two face-to-face with intel officers and one over the phone. All gave me highest recommendations. I had good grades and just graduated Summa with a 3.95 GPA. I have published a paper in an academic journal (Studies In Conflict and Terrorism) about the 2nd Intifada between Israel and the Palestinians. My previous employment history fit very well with intel: 5 years as a Quality Analyst at an aircraft manufacturing plant (Learjet) and 2 years as a Quality Analyst at a govt contractor where among my duties was to fly to D.C. every other month and give a 2 hour briefing to the Dept of Labor....etc.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn. I just think that the quality of the applicants MUST be rising and so the pre-OCS screening must be better than it used to be. If there are still idiots at OCS then I just cannot see how they got through all of the competition. Is my experience the "normal case" or is it just harder to get into Intel?

 

[SteveG75]

This is just opinion and it’s just my opinion but maybe the reason why the Navy has Marines do the main pushing at OCS is because we as Ensigns will need to build a relationship with our Chiefs when we get to the fleet. We will use them as guidance and as a huge resource.

I love my DI, but there are many who don not because they have a hard time taking harassment even at the sake of bettering themselves. If we had Chief push us to the point where many disliked them then it might hinder future Chief-Officer relationships. I know this may sound dumb and absurd but just think outside the box for one second. We can bring in these people, these crazy yet intelligent men/women, the best the marines have to offer and have them beat the hell out of our new officers and help mold them into a Naval officer in 12 weeks. And at the same time we can have our Chiefs be the good but Firm good cops that take care of us and guide us as they will in the fleet.

Take the DI program and couple it with the fact that you’re starting the Chief-Officer relationship early and you have yourself a great Officer Accession program in 12 weeks.

But that’s why I think it’s successful and why its worked all these years. Don’t change something that’s not broke.


My two cents…

Actually, OCS has only had Marine DI's for a few years.

The old OCS was based in Newport, RI and had 100% Chiefs with no Marines. During the mid-90's, the Navy consolidated OCS with AOCS (Aviation Officer Candidate School) in Pensacola. AOCS always had Marine DI's.

My stepfather was AOCS 33-68, no chiefs. I was AOCS 18-90, no chiefs.

IMHO, AOCS was tougher than OCS because we had Marines. Only aviators got Marine trained. Everyone else (shoes, etc) got chiefs.

Bottom line: The combined OCS was tougher than the Newport OCS but less than AOCS. Where it is going now, I have no idea.

 

[wink]

I came in through the AOCS process in 1979, I recruited for all officer programs in the mid '80s. Now, as a reservist, I am envolved with recruiting once again. It is absolutely true that we are more selective then I have ever seen. The standards are very high.

Yes, idiots, malcontents, self serving and half committed folks still get through. They always will. They must be weeded out at the lowest possible level, ie OCS.

There is no way that OCS is dumbed down to bring their product in line with USNA and ROTC. That is just USMC DI boosting about their own product. The Navy would never even tacitly admit that the USNA produces an inferior product to a <90 day wonder. And, on balance, you will get almost no one with any fleet experience to say that it does.

I doubt any changes are being made to the OCS program just because the quality of the candidates is generally higher then 20 years ago. Within months any number of world events or US economic changes could see the number of candidates required go up dramaticly or the supply of applicants dry up. In any case, the overall quality of the initial product would likely drop to compensate. What then, make OCS harder over night?

If they want OCS shorter and eaiser it is because of money. It is as simple as that. Compromise the quality of the end product for dollars. A shorter OCS is cheaper. True, the same guys just sit around API pools getting paid a higher salary, but, that is someone elses problem. The CNET guys can point to the cost of training at OCS and say they have brought it down and made it more efficeint. Someone else is responsible for the cost of keeping guys in a pool doing nothing constructive. That is the Navy way .

 

[Steve1001]

Everyone knows it's a trickle process,...I'm sure API will compensate at some later point to reduce the wait,....everything just takes time. Personally, I think everyone should just be proud they made it, because it is an achievement in itself.

 

[nukumall]

Hi, I have a question. I am looking at applying in the next month or two. I am a E-6 in the Air Force and my recruiter is not sure if I will retain my pay grade of E-6. You know you get E-5 pay and housing while you are at OCS, and if you held a higher rank, you will recieve that pay. Does anyone know since I will be discharged a day prior to entering OCS, what pay will I recieve? Thank you.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

you'll keep your previous pay grade. but you will loose the housing pay if you don't have dependents.

 

[nukumall]

Thanks Vette, I have 3 Dependents. I think they are going to live in NYC with family. Big time BAH!! Like $2100 for E-6.

 

[wheels_vpnavy]

Two cents from a lowly enlisted guy

I know my opinion may not be needed or wanted in here, but...

It has been my experience that no matter what route an Officer went to get his commission, it boils down to the desire you have to be a Naval OFFICER. Not an aviator, not a supply officer, not an intel officer, but a NAVAL OFFICER. Some of the best administrators or aviators in the Navy flat out suck as Officers. If changes need to be made to OCS, then so be it. I think the number one thing that needs to be taught is that once you put on those bars, it is no longer about you. The mission must come first, followed by your Sailors, and you come last. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of working for some of the best and some of the worst officers in the Navy. I always told myself to use them as examples, good or bad. The good ones ALL had one thing in common. Total dedication to mission and their folks. Again, just my two cents.

 

[olpa9901]

really now

So back to the first post....are the so-called changes with 0806 actually going to happen?

I was there when the switch happened (around the 1205 era) and i can't imagine the PT getting easier. I still broke and got sent home but that was the "old" PT programs doing.

I remember the first day i heard during morning PT: "Punch the sky"
hahah...a riot.