NSS Facts

[jtmedli]

First off, if you don't have anything constructive to say, you STFU and keep scrolling bro. Nobody's complaining about anything, just trying to accurately understand.

Calm down slick. I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the people who stress out over a number that not even the VT commands can explain or calculate without a computer and get all dick-bent about the rest of their careers. You're trying to "accurately understand" something that even the guys in stu-con and/or CO of the squadron can't bust out a calculator and explain.

EDIT: The NSS and it's inherent flaws are pretty much a topic for a mathematics thesis so I gave up on trying to make sense of it a long time ago.

 

[squorch2]

Yes, let the hate flow through you...

 

[Gatordev]

Don't worry about it. You can't directly control your NSS anyway.

What can you directly control? Your ability to meet/exceed CTS as often as possible. Learn what the CTS is for each maneuver, and strive to meet or exceed those standards on every hop.

You should be familiar with what constitutes CTS, because it is impossible to know if you met CTS (4) on an item if you don't know what the standards are! Most flights have "standard" graded items (General Knowledge, EPs, etc.), and each block has only a handful of unique graded maneuvers. Getting familiar with the standards to which you are being graded doesn't take a lot of effort.

(No, there is no real syllabus requirement for knowing what constitutes CTS...but since you're obviously concerned about your grades, you might want to start with knowing what you're evaluated on during every flight.)

Agreed. While you may not be expending a lot of energy on it, just posting about it is energy that could be spent on memorizing what CTS is and then executing. TIMS takes a lot of the hand calculation out of NSS, so I wouldn't get too wrapped up in making sure someone didn't carry the 1. And if they did...really? Are you going to prove the theorem wrong? This isn't an exam multiple or making sure your worksheet is correct. Do well, and (for the most part), any one error is going to be nullified by an overall average above whatever average you seek.

 

[wlawr005]

I feel like what started out as a simple question got ass-raped into "suck it up Ensign, how dare you question the almighty NSS? You're lucky to fucking be here blah, blah, blah." It's actually not that complicated of a system, I was just wondering how they combined the different PAS scores. There's so much bullshit floating around out there, I thought I might actually find the truth here. I don't care what I end up flying really, but thanks for all the help gents

One day, someone IS going to dig into it and realize that we have probably fucked every SNA since NSS started, but at least we were all fucked equally...sometimes.

 

[squorch2]

The people who are best suited to answer your question work in your admin/stucon.

 

[wlawr005]

The NSS isn't a completely 'fair' system and isn't always an accurate representation of someone's flying abilities. It fluctuates with the wind, in some cases, and is a mathematically flawed method of comparing stud A and stud B (and in the current primary situation, both of those guys probably didn't even fly the same a/c). So the takeaway from this who 5 pages of thread was back on page 1: There is absolutely nothing you can do about it except work hard, do your best, play the game in primary (and advanced for that matter), and be glad that you're getting paid to fly.

Some Shooter students were transferred to VT-2 to help out their student load and this question came up at the meeting. T-6 guys are not compared to T-34 guys at all. If you are flying the T-6 at VT-2, your NSS is calculated using "historical data" also known as "notionals". That will continue to happen until VT-2 completes the requisite 60 students needed to derive a "proper" NSS. I believe that VT-6 has just recently completed the 60 students needed to stop using the "notionals".

 

[jtmedli]

One day, someone IS going to dig into it and realize that we have probably fucked every SNA since NSS started, but at least we were all fucked equally...sometimes.

You pretty much just figured out exactly how the NSS works.

Some Shooter students were transferred to VT-2 to help out their student load and this question came up at the meeting. T-6 guys are not compared to T-34 guys at all. If you are flying the T-6 at VT-2, your NSS is calculated using "historical data" also known as "notionals". That will continue to happen until VT-2 completes the requisite 60 students needed to derive a "proper" NSS. I believe that VT-6 has just recently completed the 60 students needed to stop using the "notionals".

I'm aware of that. I was simply referring to the fact that what you've pointed out doesn't exactly make a 'T34 NSS' vs. 'T6B NSS' an "all else equal" situation when it comes time to selecting jets (which, if we're all honest, is exactly why the NSS exists). Hence, the inherent error. A few examples:

-The NSS is currently comparing students from a new, more-or-less experimental program that uses an airplane that flies 300+ KIAS to a well-established program (with plenty of solid gouge out there) that uses an airplane that flies 180KIAS with it fire-walled. One can definitely argue that the slower you go, the more time you have and, therefore, the easier things are. One can also argue that the T6B will prepare studs much better for jet advanced than a T34 would.
-The NSS also doesn't take into account instructor grading tendencies. If stud A and stud B are completely equal but 'A' flies his first RI block (or whatever) with a "Santa Claus grader" while 'B' flies with a "MIF-monster" then stud B when inherently have a lower NSS. We'd all like to think, and argue, that the Santa Claus's and MIF-monsters are equally spread and it equals out in the end, but let's be honest and just admit that it doesn't exactly always work out that way. Stud B can end up flying with all the MIF-mosters and Stud A can fly with a bunch of Santa Claus types and therefore the NSSs will be drastically different despite the two are perfectly equal.

It's all argumentative and is definitely intriguing which is why I said it would make a good thesis type topic for someone doing a mathematics masters.

 

[Pags]

Here's the rub: none of this will matter when you gt your wings. In a few short years, you'll love what you're flying* and could care less about your NSS. Don't worry so much about scores, worry even less about the magic math behind the scores, and just focus on flying.

*if you don't love what you're flying** because your grades caused you to go somewhere else, then you probably should have spent more time studying.

**dont worry, you'll love it no matter what platform you get.

 

[Gatordev]

-The NSS is currently comparing students from a new, more-or-less experimental program that uses an airplane that flies 300+ KIAS to a well-established program (with plenty of solid gouge out there) that uses an airplane that flies 180KIAS with it fire-walled. One can definitely argue that the slower you go, the more time you have and, therefore, the easier things are. One can also argue that the T6B will prepare studs much better for jet advanced than a T34 would.

Let's give the T-34 credit where it's due. It goes 200 KIAS. That extra 20 knots is easily worth 10 NSS/XP.

-The NSS also doesn't take into account instructor grading tendencies. If stud A and stud B are completely equal but 'A' flies his first RI block (or whatever) with a "Santa Claus grader" while 'B' flies with a "MIF-monster" then stud B when inherently have a lower NSS. We'd all like to think, and argue, that the Santa Claus's and MIF-monsters are equally spread and it equals out in the end, but let's be honest and just admit that it doesn't exactly always work out that way. Stud B can end up flying with all the MIF-mosters and Stud A can fly with a bunch of Santa Claus types and therefore the NSSs will be drastically different despite the two are perfectly equal.

What the stud forgets is that the MIF-monster and the Santa Clause fly with a bunch of (let's say at least 60) other studs in the process, so they do tend to net out across the board. Over that period, the difference won't be that "drastic."

 

[Recovering LSO]

more-or-less experimental program that uses an airplane that flies 300+ KIAS to a well-established program (with plenty of solid gouge out there) that uses an airplane that flies 180KIAS with it fire-walled. One can definitely argue that the slower you go, the more time you have and, therefore, the easier things are. One can also argue that the T6B will prepare studs much better for jet advanced than a T34 would.

Yet dudes have been going from T-34s to T-2s to TA-4s and T-45s for years... One could also argue that... ah screw it.... only 37% of you are gonna get jets anyway

 

[usmarinemike]

Yet dudes have been going from T-34s to T-2s to TA-4s and T-45s for years... One could also argue that... ah screw it.... only 37% of you are gonna get jets anyway

Dang. It went down lately. Damn fighter gap.

 

[scoober78]

Here's the rub: none of this will matter when you gt your wings. In a few short years, you'll love what you're flying* and could care less about your NSS. Don't worry so much about scores, worry even less about the magic math behind the scores, and just focus on flying.

*if you don't love what you're flying** because your grades caused you to go somewhere else, then you probably should have spent more time studying.

**dont worry, you'll love it no matter what platform you get.

And if all of the above fails, and you'd still rather fly something else...kick ass and make it happen later. The bottom line in all cases is that you can only control what you do when you show up to fly. The rest isn't worth worrying about. Don't suck and you might get what you want...even if you have to take the long way there.

 

[SynixMan]

@walwr005, When you complete Primary, you'll be able to see your stage NSS for each block of flights. They can give an estimate as you're going through, but the folks you'll be compared to fluctuate. Later on, you can go back and see which blocks you were a rock or a rockstar. If you want to get deeper in the weeds on this, I'd consult your stucon civilian types. In -27 at least, they did the calculation in conjunction with TIMS.

Fair warning though, the line between stud wanting to know how their grades are calculated and stud whining about how their grades are calculated is extremely blurry. You might become That Guy pretty quickly, both to instructors/staff and your fellow studs. Do you have a "right" to know? Sure, sort of. I understand where you're coming from, and most of us were there. Just don't waste too many brain cells on it. You'd be better off using that energy somewhere else.

 

[squorch2]

Also, your interim stage NSS doesn't mean shit in lower blocks where MIF is usually 3.

 

[wlawr005]

@walwr005, When you complete Primary, you'll be able to see your stage NSS for each block of flights. They can give an estimate as you're going through, but the folks you'll be compared to fluctuate. Later on, you can go back and see which blocks you were a rock or a rockstar. If you want to get deeper in the weeds on this, I'd consult your stucon civilian types. In -27 at least, they did the calculation in conjunction with TIMS.

Fair warning though, the line between stud wanting to know how their grades are calculated and stud whining about how their grades are calculated is extremely blurry. You might become That Guy pretty quickly, both to instructors/staff and your fellow studs. Do you have a "right" to know? Sure, sort of. I understand where you're coming from, and most of us were there. Just don't waste too many brain cells on it. You'd be better off using that energy somewhere else.

Thanks, and agreed. STUCON has better shit to do than answer my NSS questions, that's why I posted here. Thanks for the info all.