• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

NSS Facts

Cavt

Living the dream
pilot
ok ok, I'm gonna be that guy and stir the pot a little more. Word on the street is a couple of weeks ago a group of VT-2 students were getting ready to select and they all had different raw scores (ratio's), but when their NSS was spit out they all were given a 47...I find it interesting that just as we switch over to TIMS people NSS's went from going up 10 points or so to recently the projected to the final dropping 10-17 points...whats the deal, was there just a really large group or smart guys that came through and bumped the ratio way up? Or is there some way that it is TIMS' fault???
 

e6bflyer

Used to Care
pilot
It is true, the numbers have been down as of late. I won't go into explaining how it all worked out because there is a lot of PFM involved, but a large group got a projected NSS that was much higher than end NSS. It happens, which is why we always tell students not to depend on the projected NSS. The second, much smaller group, had incorrect final NSS based on their scores. A sharp group of instructors saw that and not only got it rectified, but went back and made sure that it didn't apply to anyone else over the last few months. (it didn't)
NSS will go away eventually, until then, we have to put up with a flawed system. SNAs have been bitching about it since A4's was a stash Ensign. The only thing I can say is just do the best you can on your daily flights and let the chips fall.
 

JackyB

Active Member
"NSS will go away eventually, until then, we have to put up with a flawed system. SNAs have been bitching about it since A4's was a stash Ensign. The only thing I can say is just do the best you can on your daily flights and let the chips fall."

So work hard and do your best cause Navy Sets the Score will continue regardless of how you do. :icon_rage
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
Super Moderator
Before I ask my questions I would like to thank everyone for contributing to this post. I'm sure once I commission a lot of this will make even more sense, but before this post I had no idea how SNAs were graded. So that said Ill get to my point.

1.) Can someone explain what the difference is between the multiple grading methods that have been mentioned? It seems, and I may be wrong, that the Navy is keeping different metrics using the same data.

2.) Can someone explain, briefly, the difference between the grading methods that have been discussed? For instance TIMS, ATS, NSS, MPTS, etc. From where I'm sitting it appears that TIMS and NSS are competing grading systems and you have either one or the other, while ATS is a flight by flight grade. Am I confused?

3.) This thread has, and in general this forum, talks a lot about attrition. Its been said a few times here that your NSS score will not attrite in itself. That being the case what will attrite you? Is it only being below MIF or are there other ways?(in a general sense, I know there are 1001 ways to attrite but my question is more from a grade perspective).

4.) There has been a lot of discussion about what NSS is not used for, but I couldn't seem to determine exactly what it is used for. My best guess that it is used for community selection, however if that were the only thing it was used for it seems that you would drop it eventually, but from the sound of it, NSS continues with you for some time.

5.) Lastly what factors (other than the needs of the Navy) do go into your community selection? Is it only NSS. For example if in a given week there are 3 jet slots, 5 helos, 5 Maritime, etc. what metrics are used to match dream sheets with available slots?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.
 

Pags

Positive Void Coefficient
pilot
Honestly, you're time in flight school is much better spent worrying about limits, procedures, and briefing items than it is trying to figure out the intricasies of whatever grading system the Navy is currently using. If you have all the important stuff well in hand, than your time is still better spent sleeping, drinking, or doing basically anything else than delving into the PhD level statistics at work in the grading system. In short, worry about the shit you can control.
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
I know its hard as a student to do...trust me, I did my share of trying to deconstruct the system...but Pags is right. There is no use. You will get what you get. Some weeks it is logical and people with higher scores get their preference before others...some weeks not. You get what they need/want to give you. Period. In the immortal words of A4's:)D)....Believe it!
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
Super Moderator
I guess my motive is more not trying to deconstruct it, game it, or otherwise try to beat the system.

Im taking all of the advice I read here to heart. I used to be terrified of API, then I wondered if I would get any sleep at all during primary. After being here for just a few months I have found a plethora of advice that sets me at ease.

My questions were more meant to be general to better understand how primary works and what to expect, rather than understand how everything is calculated, and the minute intricacies of each score.
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
Its been said a few times here that your NSS score will not attrite in itself.
This is actually not true. You can be sent to an FPC based solely on your calculated NSS. A friend went to an FPC because with multiplier, his NSS was the reccomended attrite number...he passed the FPC and continued but the CO could have easily decided not to send him.
Lastly what factors (other than the needs of the Navy) do go into your community selection? Is it only NSS. For example if in a given week there are 3 jet slots, 5 helos, 5 Maritime, etc. what metrics are used to match dream sheets with available slots?
I wasn't picking on you when I replied. My response was serious. The order of priority in matching SNA's with platforms is needs of the Navy, grades (do you meet the cutoffs), and lastly, personal preference. CO's reccomendation plays a role as well, but I cannot speak to its importance. I do not believe there is a metric used...even if there is, needs of service trump them all. Period. Some tell you that they will give higher scoring individuals one of their preferences before moving down the score list...not always. Some will say that with one slot of a certain type available, it will go to someone with a lower score who has it as a first choice as opposed to a higher score with a lower priority....not always.

The only hard and fast rule is that it is out of your hands. Believe it.
 

Pags

Positive Void Coefficient
pilot
I guess my motive is more not trying to deconstruct it, game it, or otherwise try to beat the system.

Im taking all of the advice I read here to heart. I used to be terrified of API, then I wondered if I would get any sleep at all during primary. After being here for just a few months I have found a plethora of advice that sets me at ease.

My questions were more meant to be general to better understand how primary works and what to expect, rather than understand how everything is calculated, and the minute intricacies of each score.
There's no point in worrying about flight school..."worrying is a lot like a rocking chair. it gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere."

In the end, all you can control about flight school is your attitude, your time management, and your work ethic. if all of these are in order, you've done your share.

in the end, all you need to know about the grading system is that you're graded on just about everything in flight school, from the obvious such as procedures to the less obvious such as attitude. these grades go onto an ATF, which is your gradesheet for the flight. from there, it's pretty much PFM. these grades go into some magic box filled with elves, leprechauns, and eskimos that look at these numbers, compare them to other people's numbers and somehow manage to generate a score that's called the Naval Standarized Score, or NSS. at the end of primary, your NSS and preference card are put into another magic box that compares your stuff to what the navy needs and through some more PFM, you're get assinged to an advanced track.
 

60B Rotorhead

New Member
pilot
Here's my 2 cents on what you need to know about flight school grades

1. NSS=Black Magic it's best not to try to learn too much about it, the iceberg can only fit so many penguins

2. It doesn't matter what you, it's what everyone else gets. There are weeks where guys with 40's will get waivers because they need jet guys that week and there are weeks where guys with 60's won't because there are only 1 or 2 jet slots. Those two weeks will be consecutive.

3. You're going to have fun in anything you can get your hands on. Don't stress it.
 

Heloanjin

Active Member
pilot
1.) Can someone explain what the difference is between the multiple grading methods that have been mentioned? It seems, and I may be wrong, that the Navy is keeping different metrics using the same data.
There is only one grading method. Each maneuver is graded 1-5. Each flight is graded Pass, Marginal, or Unsat. This is all explained in the Primary Multi-Service Pilot Training System Curriculum (MPTS).

2.)Can someone explain, briefly, the difference between the grading methods that have been discussed? For instance TIMS, ATS, NSS, MPTS, etc. From where I'm sitting it appears that TIMS and NSS are competing grading systems and you have either one or the other, while ATS is a flight by flight grade. Am I confused?
There is only one grading method. It is explained in MPTS. TIMS is simply software that is used to manage the flight training program. Its uses range from flight schedules to student data archives to NSS calculation. NSS is not a grade. It is a ranking. It just tells a completer where he/she ranked against the 6 months previous completers.


3.) This thread has, and in general this forum, talks a lot about attrition. Its been said a few times here that your NSS score will not attrite in itself. That being the case what will attrite you? Is it only being below MIF or are there other ways?(in a general sense, I know there are 1001 ways to attrite but my question is more from a grade perspective).
NSS will not attrite you. It could trigger a Command Assessment and the Command Assessment can attrite you. While in training, there is really only one way to attrite (besides medical, officer like qualities, etc). The one way to attrite is to fail an FPC. There are a number of ways to end up in an FPC. Read the MPTS. It explains them all.


4.) There has been a lot of discussion about what NSS is not used for, but I couldn't seem to determine exactly what it is used for. My best guess that it is used for community selection, however if that were the only thing it was used for it seems that you would drop it eventually, but from the sound of it, NSS continues with you for some time.
NSS is used to rank students. Student ranking is used for selection. Beyond that, NSS isn't really used for anything. After you select, nobdy cares what your Primary NSS was. Once you get your wings, nobody cares what you did in flight school.
 

VAmookie

Registered User
Nope!

I know its hard as a student to do...trust me, I did my share of trying to deconstruct the system...but Pags is right. There is no use. You will get what you get. Some weeks it is logical and people with higher scores get their preference before others...some weeks not. You get what they need/want to give you. Period. In the immortal words of A4's:)D)....Believe it!



Uh, NO, actually it aint hard to not worry about grades. Holy shit i've got enough on my plate worrying about tomorrow and the next day. Everyday, I've always got to about the next day. When you suck at swimming and someone throws you a brick to hold and says sink or swim (aka flight school and the brick just might be the natops, FWOP, FTI, etc) that last thing on my mind is my grades. I'm really thinking, fuck me, this brick is heavy and i better bust my ass to keep my head above water.

For those of you who want jets, plan on not getting them (seriously). I bring all this up for those of you waiting to get into flight school. You want to know the grading system cause you want jets, but by the time you actually make it to primary and complete it, you'll just be so glad you made it that that you'll find some happiness flying an F/A-100 ultralite. And IF YOU DO get jets, you'll be that much more pleasantly surprised.

HONESTLY, just worry about how you're going to hold on to that damn brick and make it back to shore
 

Herc_Dude

I believe nicotine + caffeine = protein
pilot
Contributor
Uh, NO, actually it aint hard to not worry about grades. Holy shit i've got enough on my plate worrying about tomorrow and the next day. Everyday, I've always got to about the next day. When you suck at swimming and someone throws you a brick to hold and says sink or swim (aka flight school and the brick just might be the natops, FWOP, FTI, etc) that last thing on my mind is my grades. I'm really thinking, fuck me, this brick is heavy and i better bust my ass to keep my head above water.

For those of you who want jets, plan on not getting them (seriously). I bring all this up for those of you waiting to get into flight school. You want to know the grading system cause you want jets, but by the time you actually make it to primary and complete it, you'll just be so glad you made it that that you'll find some happiness flying an F/A-100 ultralite. And IF YOU DO get jets, you'll be that much more pleasantly surprised.

HONESTLY, just worry about how you're going to hold on to that damn brick and make it back to shore
Ol' Devil dog here aint too good at analogies, but he can relate to the brick thing. Must be a from the week of swimming at TBS :D
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
Uh, NO, actually it aint hard to not worry about grades. Holy shit i've got enough on my plate worrying about tomorrow and the next day. Everyday, I've always got to about the next day. When you suck at swimming and someone throws you a brick to hold and says sink or swim (aka flight school and the brick just might be the natops, FWOP, FTI, etc) that last thing on my mind is my grades. I'm really thinking, fuck me, this brick is heavy and i better bust my ass to keep my head above water.

For those of you who want jets, plan on not getting them (seriously). I bring all this up for those of you waiting to get into flight school. You want to know the grading system cause you want jets, but by the time you actually make it to primary and complete it, you'll just be so glad you made it that that you'll find some happiness flying an F/A-100 ultralite. And IF YOU DO get jets, you'll be that much more pleasantly surprised.

HONESTLY, just worry about how you're going to hold on to that damn brick and make it back to shore

Uh...what the hell are you talking about?:D:confused: No disrespect intended...but it seems like you started out disagreeing with me...and then repeated pretty much what I said in your second paragraph.
Everyday, I've always got to about the next day.
I don't even know what this means...
 
Top