No Stars and Stripes Present!

[Recovering LSO]

This is another tempest in a teapot, just like President Obama breaking 'tradition' by not being at Arlington for Memorial Day when in fact it hasn't been that closely followed by his recent predecessors, notably President George H.W. Bush, who never went there on Memorial Day. Or rolling his sleeves up in the Oval Office, putting his feet on the Resolute desk, not wearing a flag lapel pin or whatever other bullshit some loser thinks of sitting in his mom's basement in the middle of the night. My god, he must hate America! Socialist revolutionary! He wouldn't do that if he was from the 'real' America!!

It is actually quite pathetic that people actually see so much in something so innocuous.

Let's see...Where to start here -
1. Breaking tradition: when you come off your personal mountain of liberal piety, go back to the post about the Arlington service - issue was not so much the break with tradition. See, most of us don't INSTANTLY resort to "well the right did/didn't do it" defense, because that would be "pathetic". The issue that was raised was that for a CinC (who never served, is using DADT as a vote grab, and has increased numbers in Afghanistan despite very clear campaigning to the contrary), it seemed like it might a be a nice tip of the cap. You can't honestly say that going to a national cemetery in IL and Arlington are the same thing. Sure, its symbolism, but its important to A LOT of people.

2. bullshit, pathetic, loser. Pretty typical response and remarkably similar to MMX1's responses when he gets all spun up. If this kind of stuff upsets you so much, STOP CLICKING ON IT. Damn man, you don't think we're all a bit tired of your act as well? Your MO is to make condescending comments to anyone who has a differing opinion than you. If your smart ass sarcasm isn't enough to shut 'em down then you resort to calling them pathetic losers. It might be time to take a deep breath and stop holding on so tight.

3. Even though I'm not going to engage in your games of "well he didn't go and he was a republican", I will add that comparing GHW Bush's attitude towards service and sacrifice to the current CinC's is a stretch. But since you're smarter than everyone else here you don't need me to explain to you why.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

This man is also quite dangerous, not wearing an American flag pin, not having a flag behind him at a press conference, raising taxies and driving the national debt to unprecedented levels. He must be stopped!

There's a flag on the White House behind him.

 

[HercDriver]

There's a flag on the White House behind him.

Obviously being a socialist, he thought a small flag was appropriate.

 

[exhelodrvr]

The Democrats lost a potential good man when Al went left & crazy. Unless he was always a hypocrite ... and had me fooled ... and then what's the 'diff' ???

You know what they say "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool A4s, the shame is less."

 

[Flash]

.....there is a difference between a press conference and a press briefing, which appears to be what President Reagan (This man) is conducting in your post.

Press conferences can be held anywhere, as can press briefings. What's the substantive difference? Not much, if any, from what I have seen of both.

It's fun stirring the pot and seeing the personalities emerge. Kind of validates certain things.

It certainly is, and does, especially when one can't even conjure up an original thought.

You need to switch to decaf!! You still haven't explained why is it unreasonable to ask "Why?"

Why not? The problem starts when substance is drowned out by mere appearance. While appearances, impressions and style are important should they outweigh substance?

I don't like Obama, and think he is leading our country to the slaughter with the consent of our congress who are a bunch of gutless wonders.

I have to ask, what slaughter?

While not mandatory, and not necessarily a tradition, it seems to me a matter of patriotic pride to display my flag with a lapel pin, or flags at my home. I have the only flag flying on a flagpole in my neighborhood and it bothers me to see such a lack of patriotism in the country unless there is some kind of disaster like 9/11 to wake the zombies.

Publicly displaying your patriotism is great, demonstrating and living it is much better.

Let's see...Where to start here -
1. Breaking tradition: when you come off your personal mountain of liberal piety, go back to the post about the Arlington service - issue was not so much the break with tradition. See, most of us don't INSTANTLY resort to "well the right did/didn't do it" defense, because that would be "pathetic". The issue that was raised was that for a CinC (who never served, is using DADT as a vote grab, and has increased numbers in Afghanistan despite very clear campaigning to the contrary), it seemed like it might a be a nice tip of the cap. You can't honestly say that going to a national cemetery in IL and Arlington are the same thing. Sure, its symbolism, but its important to A LOT of people.

No, it is often a "He doesn't do it so he must be un-American" offense, so that makes it all better.

I can honestly say that going to any national cemetery is an appropriate thing for the President to do on any occasion, including Memorial Day. I am quite familiar with Arlington, as a native of the DC area it has long been my 'local' national cemetery and I have gone there plenty of times from when I was a little kid, and until recently drove by it twice a day. But that it deserves the attention of the President over all the other national cemeteries all over the world is a bit puzzling to me, since I think all our war dead should be equally honored. I am certain the President's appearance at the Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery was important to a lot of people, especially those who have loved ones buried there. Just as an appearance at Barrancas, Beaufort, North Africa or Vicksburg National Cemeteries would be important to a lot of people.

2. bullshit, pathetic, loser. Pretty typical response and remarkably similar to MMX1's responses when he gets all spun up. If this kind of stuff upsets you so much, STOP CLICKING ON IT. Damn man, you don't think we're all a bit tired of your act as well? Your MO is to make condescending comments to anyone who has a differing opinion than you. If your smart ass sarcasm isn't enough to shut 'em down then you resort to calling them pathetic losers. It might be time to take a deep breath and stop holding on so tight.

So it is okay if the occasional bad word or trash talking is used by those you agree with but not if someone disagrees with you, got it. Especially since MMX1 and I are pretty much the only two that are like that, especially with the condescending comments. I mean, everyone else here is really just a-okay and never says anything remotely like my first post in this thread, especially when responding to me or others they disagree with. Maybe I should stop bolding everything and using 42 font when I really want to get my point across! Wow man, you really got me! You are so much better than all of those who take the low road. I salute you!

3. Even though I'm not going to engage in your games of "well he didn't go and he was a republican", I will add that comparing GHW Bush's attitude towards service and sacrifice to the current CinC's is a stretch. But since you're smarter than everyone else here you don't need me to explain to you why.

I thought you were all about appearances, not substance.

There's a flag on the White House behind him.

Amazing, the same number of flags as there was at President Obama's news conference!

 

[A4sForever]

Press conferences .... press briefings. What's the substantive difference? Not much, if any, from what I have seen of both.
....

I believe, but I'm not gonna' put any money on it, that a 'press conference' implies a 2-way w/ a Q&A session implied & included, even if an introductory 'statement' is being made by the convening party.

A 'press briefing' is just that -- a talkie-pointie by the convening party TO the assembled guests/invitees.

'Course then we have 'media events' and 'photo ops' and 'news releases', too ... so who really knows?? I guess it's whatever you want to make it ... as w/ most things.

 

[hokieav8r]

The question is valid, there are rules for what is to be present during any public briefing although I am not knowledgeable as to the rules in the White House, they were set way before any of us were alive. They have been diluted by people ignoring the handovers of said rules and they've been lost in translation to the point that I am sure that certain secretaries and support staff just simply make new rules or make stuff up in order to justify doing something without the proper accoutrements being present and visible. Ask any military officer who has ever served on a White House assignment. Think of it this way: Would you conduct a re-enlistment or oath of office without an American Flag present? These everpresent traditions were brought forth by people of substance and people that were the founding fathers of this Great Nation. If you follow in the footsteps and paths of these men who came before us, who are you to cheapen our vision forward and make it okay to just let something go that once would have been held accountable to a person and the future of their presence and their job (i.e. if you task a sailor/soldier, that their only direct responsibility is to ensure an American Flag is present any time you plan to conduct a Reenlistment or Oath of Office, and he doesn't successfully complete that task, he would be fired, and sent to another unit). My $.02.

 

[Recovering LSO]

So it is okay if the occasional bad word or trash talking is used by those you agree with but not if someone disagrees with you, got it. Especially since MMX1 and I are pretty much the only two that are like that, especially with the condescending comments. I mean, everyone else here is really just a-okay and never says anything remotely like my first post in this thread, especially when responding to me or others they disagree with. Maybe I should stop bolding everything and using 42 font when I really want to get my point across! Wow man, you really got me! You are so much better than all of those who take the low road. I salute you!


I thought you were all about appearances, not substance.

See there Flash, you missed the boat again. Its not cool for anyone to trash talk or speak of other professionals in disparaging ways - BUT as I've pointed out once already, this is what you do.... I'll summarize...."well they do it, so why is okay for them and not me?" If you had a problem with the OP, that's fine, but damn man, you f'ing roll in on him and start lobbing "pathetic, bullshit, loser" around.

Enjoy yourself.

 

[Flash]

The question is valid, there are rules for what is to be present during any public briefing although I am not knowledgeable as to the rules in the White House, they were set way before any of us were alive.......

For televised news conferences? I don't think so. The President's use of the media is 20th century phenomenon with FDR really kicking it off and JFK bringing it to the television age, with Nixon's help of course. Look no further than the first notable television address by a national politician to give lie to your assertion, President Nixon's 'Checkers' speech. Doesn't look look like any flags were there. Not an official address, but you get the idea, same with FDR (no TV but plenty of photographers.

Think of it this way: Would you conduct a re-enlistment or oath of office without an American Flag present?

Actually I have done and seen several where there are no flags present, including the American flag. I have noticed the Army does things a bit different than the Navy, with the appropriate flags ever-present. But having taken part in reenlistments in locations as varied as an EP-3 cockpit to a traditional Japanese bridge, in civilian clothes no less, it just goes to show that 'tradition' is often not as sacrosanct or 'traditional' as one would believe.

 

[Flash]

See there Flash, you missed the boat again. Its not cool for anyone to trash talk or speak of other professionals in disparaging ways - BUT as I've pointed out once already, this is what you do.... I'll summarize...."well they do it, so why is okay for them and not me?"

I guessed you missed my point to, you have chosen to just point it out when I did it. Why choose little old me? Is it my dashing good looks and charm? My sardonic wit? I mean, why else would you choose to illuminate my posts over others? Perhaps it is just that my politics are just not aligned with yours. Can't be though, you are just too good for that.

Get off your perch, you ain't that much better than rest of us rabble down here on the streets.

Enjoy yourself.

Oh, I am, I get quite a kick out of someone thinking so highly of themselves. That would include me I guess .

 

[exhelodrvr]

"You still haven't explained why is it unreasonable to ask "Why?""

Why not? The problem starts when substance is drowned out by mere appearance. While appearances, impressions and style are important should they outweigh substance?

Typically, you don't answer the question. Probably because you don't read it. I never said appearances should outweigh substance; I said that when what has been a typical appearance is changed it's reasonable to ask why. And I even followed that by noting that one shouldn't jump to conclusions until hearing the "why". But apparently the panties were already bunched and you didn't get that far.

 

[HercDriver]

Actually I have done and seen several where there are no flags present, including the American flag. I have noticed the Army does things a bit different than the Navy, with the appropriate flags ever-present. But having taken part in reenlistments in locations as varied as an EP-3 cockpit to a traditional Japanese bridge, in civilian clothes no less, it just goes to show that 'tradition' is often not as sacrosanct or 'traditional' as one would believe.

Seen 'em in flight, on the ramp of the C-130, and attended one 15 years ago (when I was a diver) in about 30' of water, off Hawaii. No flags present at either one.

Also, please explain why he has to have a flag behind him because he represents the country? Seriously? If someone wants to pull up a bit of the Flag Code, I'd be curious, but we are talking a press event, not the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns.

 

[mmx1]

Let's see...Where to start here -
1. Breaking tradition: when you come off your personal mountain of liberal piety, go back to the post about the Arlington service - issue was not so much the break with tradition. See, most of us don't INSTANTLY resort to "well the right did/didn't do it" defense, because that would be "pathetic". The issue that was raised was that for a CinC (who never served, is using DADT as a vote grab, and has increased numbers in Afghanistan despite very clear campaigning to the contrary), it seemed like it might a be a nice tip of the cap. You can't honestly say that going to a national cemetery in IL and Arlington are the same thing. Sure, its symbolism, but its important to A LOT of people.

2. bullshit, pathetic, loser. Pretty typical response and remarkably similar to MMX1's responses when he gets all spun up. If this kind of stuff upsets you so much, STOP CLICKING ON IT. Damn man, you don't think we're all a bit tired of your act as well? Your MO is to make condescending comments to anyone who has a differing opinion than you. If your smart ass sarcasm isn't enough to shut 'em down then you resort to calling them pathetic losers. It might be time to take a deep breath and stop holding on so tight.

3. Even though I'm not going to engage in your games of "well he didn't go and he was a republican", I will add that comparing GHW Bush's attitude towards service and sacrifice to the current CinC's is a stretch. But since you're smarter than everyone else here you don't need me to explain to you why.

Well since you decided to drag me into this. You feel you are owed something from the President because he didn't serve, and/or because you, for whatever variety of reasons, disapprove of him? And you feel the venue of a memorial service is an appropriate "tip of the cap"? That's obnoxious. I am grateful for any gesture Americans extend to me, be it a thank-you or a bar tab, but I sure as hell don't have a sense of entitlement to it or raise a stink if I don't get it.

It's not that your opinion is different, it's that it's petty.

The question is valid, there are rules for what is to be present during any public briefing although I am not knowledgeable as to the rules in the White House, they were set way before any of us were alive. They have been diluted by people ignoring the handovers of said rules and they've been lost in translation to the point that I am sure that certain secretaries and support staff just simply make new rules or make stuff up in order to justify doing something without the proper accoutrements being present and visible. Ask any military officer who has ever served on a White House assignment. Think of it this way: Would you conduct a re-enlistment or oath of office without an American Flag present? These everpresent traditions were brought forth by people of substance and people that were the founding fathers of this Great Nation. If you follow in the footsteps and paths of these men who came before us, who are you to cheapen our vision forward and make it okay to just let something go that once would have been held accountable to a person and the future of their presence and their job (i.e. if you task a sailor/soldier, that their only direct responsibility is to ensure an American Flag is present any time you plan to conduct a Reenlistment or Oath of Office, and he doesn't successfully complete that task, he would be fired, and sent to another unit). My $.02.

Is there actually a rule or are we just making stuff up because "we always do it this way"? Neither my swearing-in or my first promotion ceremony had a flag present in the immediate area. Nor in fact, in the USCIS office where I took the oath of citizenship. I guess that doesn't make me a real American.

 

[FlyinRock]

I believe I am demonstrating my patriotism on a daily basis. Even more so when I voted to get the assholes out of office that put us on this road to ruin. Slaughter? I think you are conversant with english and have a good idea of what I'm saying.

 

[Recovering LSO]

It's not that your opinion is different, it's that it's petty.