'New' IFS

[FLY_USMC]

I forgot about this last night. My chief FI, who has seen a lot more Air Force IFS guys go through the program than I have, told me that very few of them ever actually make it to the area solo (last flight in the syllabus) at 25 hours.
Left Eye Lewie: could you post or pm me a breakdown of what you did in those 8 hours. Something must have been done right.

I think I'll jump on the dogging you bandwagon as well, but just to prove a point. But first, I know guys that have FAILED IFS, so if somebody really sucks, maybe you should say something?

2nd, I did my first solo X/C with 23.2 hours, I flew out of an EXTREMELY busy Class C airport, they too should be able to do the same.

I have almost a grand of dual given, I didn't look at them all, but my first 10 students all soloed with about 10 hours.

Though it's been FOREVER since I gave any of this any thought, I do remember breaking down the PPL into stages, first goal solo, 2nd goal solo X/C, 3rd goal checkride. We concentrated on those, meaning I know prior to soloing you have to demonstrated proficiency and be demonstrated several maneuvers. BLAH, I demo'd almost everything real quick, had them demo it, and then we concentrated on the dynamics of STALL RECOVERY so they didn't kill themselves on their solo, but then BOOM, it was back to the pattern to get them ready for their solo. I gave the pattern 60% of the flight everytime, and not waste time on them perfecting steep turns and all that jazz when they'll have ample prep time later. I told all my students with proper planning we CAN get this thing done in 40-43 hours. Saves them money, saves me time, and we did, *almost* every time.

BTW, I taught IFS too, for the AF, I never had one of them showup not pumped, most were outstanding students, but the only problem they had was some were a bit too cocky for the size of dork they were.

 

[TheBubba]

What is different with the new IFS and the old? Seems the same to me, back when I went through all SNAs had to solo x-country within 25 hrs, I don't know anyone who finished IFS without the solo.

The difference is that now SNFOs have the 25 hr requirement. Previously, SNFOs only needed somewheres around 12 hrs, no solo... not even a "ghost" solo.

 

[Mustang83]

Does the PPL exemption from IFS counts if it is a glider PPL???

No it does not count. I have my glider PPL and I am currently 17 hrs into IFS. That whole flying with an engine thing makes it a bit different :icon_tong

 

[Trev82]

Mustang how's IFS working out for you? Did you have any previous training (not counting glider) or is this your first exposure to flight training? Whats it like... I can't f'ing wait!

 

[xmid]

So you must have a full PPL (powered flight) in order to be exempt or just have a certain amount of hours and a x/c solo?

 

[Mustang83]

I don't know exactly what qualifies. I have heard people get exempt because of hours, but I don't know the details (exactly how many hours, what the completed etc...). If your going to TBS, they'll have someone there who goes through your logbooks to figure out if you can skip it. The only guarantee to skipping is having a powered PPL.

Of course, who wants to pass up the opportunity to learn to fly from a former Marine drill instructor who believes low level flying (read: 2-5 ft) will help a new student learn to land better

 

[jjlint]

You only need a solo cross country to be exempt from IFS right now.

 

[speeddypat]

I just got into A-pool this week and went into the IFS office thinking my 25 hours and solo x-country i did back home was good to go... but they said that the rules changed and you need a PPL to get out of having to do IFS. This is for the people who didn't do IFS through a navy program obviously. Although I had hoped i wouldn't have to do it so that i could get API and everything started quickly... it's always good to have practice and i'll be able to build up some more hours, so it'll make the wait worth it i guess!

 

[jjlint]

My bad, I guess they changed the rules for IFS in the last four weeks. Like you said, though, any time in the cockpit will help you. With 25 hours under your belt, you could probably finish out the PPL using IFS.

 

[xj220]

Bad gouge. There are so many Marines in Pensacola who are IFS incomplete we are sending Marines back to TBS for IFS. Any Marine can go to Annapolis as long as he has his own place to stay.

Well that's how it was when I was going through which was about a year ago so things change.

 

[Raptor2216]

The no time previous guys soloed with the three takeoffs and landings at about 20-21 hours. Requiring a solo cross country at 23.5 hours may be a little ambitious.
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20 hour for first solo...that seems like a very long time to do the first solo...what gives?

 

[zippy]

I am serious. There was not a whole lot that they could do at 8 hours.

Theres really not all that much involved in a pattern solo... other then running the checklist being able to taxi, take off, talk to tower, fly the pattern and land safely... a few times. These are basic skills you start working with them on from day one.

It may be that I am an over-cautious instructor. But, I doubt it. I should have done some things differently just like with every other student I have. However, compared with the other students I have they were below the average. Plus, they didn't really seem to have any motivation. IFS seemed to be somewhat of a joke. At least until they were staring 20 hours in the face and weren't soloed yet.

You said where you work it is common for IFS students not to have the area solo complete by the 25hr mark (end of sylabus). Do you get them hours waivers or do you have them pay extra out of their own pocket to get it done or do you attrite them? How do you and your company handle these (repeat) situations?

If it was one student then what you said might be possible, you are claim it is all of them. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your instruction methods (Both individually and at the program level) and figure out where you can improve on them to get better performance and motivation out of your students.

If its a matter of busy airspace, then take them to a field outside of class C and have them solo there. If its a matter of them not having the skills to do two touch and goes and full stop then a lot of that is on you. Not being able to run a checklist... that is all on you. Not having the frequencies memorized... make them write down a list of common freqs used to put on their kneeboard... during the brief. Problems talking on the radio, get them a copy of the VFR comms CD to practice with outside of the plane.

Garunteed money is great, but you need to give your students the tools to succeed. If your training program is not capable of getting students IFS complete by the end of the sylabus while other flight schools out there are, then the Air Force needs to send their IFS students elsewhere.

 

[usmarinemike]

The gauntlet is down...I knew that this is where it was going to go.

 

[nittany03]

I will agree with Zippy here. I will caveat the fact that I have no dual given anywhere in my logbook. However I soloed at around 12.5, and many people I know who went through IFS did so even sooner, some with hours in the single digits. Every Navy pilot I know who went through IFS did their solo cross country at less than 25 hours, because that's all we got. I wasn't in the cockpit with you, but 20-plus hours for a pattern solo sounds way excessive. Is this common where you teach?

 

[Fezz CB]

whats the reason for SNFOs to need 25 hrs? i thought 12.5 hrs was enough to prepare us for API and beyond. i think the navy is just burning more money than it should. unless im missing something and SNFOs have been doing really bad in tracom?