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Navy vs Air Force
- Thread starter contrail_dash
- Start date
phrogdriver's comments confirm what the young ensign I speak of above was told. He was going from Vance back to Intermediate strike and was warned about the trouble Vance students were having adjusting to the Navy program. He was prepared for the independant study and discipline required of the hands off Navy approach.
Can you be lazy and make it through Navy flight training? Perhaps those with many civilian flight hours can. I was lucky, I never had a problem with flight school but when it came time to study, I did what was required for me. I certainly didn't need anyone holding my hand.
I have not been to pilot training yet in any branch so again I am just repeating what I heard from other pilots who have been there...
But it also seems that there are problems transitioning from Navy to AF midway as well, don't have any statistics. Seems like the AF students have problems adjusting to the regimented style of the Air Force when coming from Navy training and when transitioning the other way to the Navy there are problems as well adjusting to the independent/self study style after being though primary with the AF. This coming from first hand accounts of former students and UPT instructors...though they were tanker guys, not the top of the food chain when it comes to flying yet not quite at the bottom either.
Like I said above, from what I hear both training programs are very intense, if you plan on being lazy in either program you are not going to make it. My buddy going through Navy pilot training is studying his butt off everyday, learning to fly occupies his life, just as it does for the guys going through UPT. This I am pretty sure is fact and I have yet to come close to starting pilot training. Personally and given the choice, though I started in the AF, I want to train the Navy way.
But it also seems that there are problems transitioning from Navy to AF midway as well, don't have any statistics. Seems like the AF students have problems adjusting to the regimented style of the Air Force when coming from Navy training and when transitioning the other way to the Navy there are problems as well adjusting to the independent/self study style after being though primary with the AF. This coming from first hand accounts of former students and UPT instructors...though they were tanker guys, not the top of the food chain when it comes to flying yet not quite at the bottom either.
Like I said above, from what I hear both training programs are very intense, if you plan on being lazy in either program you are not going to make it. My buddy going through Navy pilot training is studying his butt off everyday, learning to fly occupies his life, just as it does for the guys going through UPT. This I am pretty sure is fact and I have yet to come close to starting pilot training. Personally and given the choice, though I started in the AF, I want to train the Navy way.
Anybody know how the Air Force Class A mishap rate compares to that of the Navy & Marine Corps. I'd like to argue that our training style creates pilots that pay more attention to detail and thus we have a lower mishap rate. But, since I don't know how the mishap rates compare, I'm basically talking out of my ass.
Problem is, do you compare only those Class A's where pilot error was the factor? What were the factors that led to the mishap. So many variables that I don't think the connection between training differences could be made based soley on Class A mishaps.
Even if you did have statistics that showed the Navy at a higher Class A mishap rate you wouldn't have much of an argument. You have to take into consideration the flight environment. I don't think you can argue the point that Naval aviation is quite a bit more dynamic than the AF, that's because landing and taking off from carriers is far more hazardous and I am guessing this is where a number of Class A mishaps occur.
You may argue that the AF has more flying hours and less mishaps within those hours than the Navy but the majority of AF planes have longer legs, i.e. transports and tankers, thus more hours. Most of the Navy aircraft have short legs, meaning more take-off and landings; this is where most Class A mishaps occur and when you take into consideration where the Navy planes are landing then you can't even compare.
You may argue that the AF has more flying hours and less mishaps within those hours than the Navy but the majority of AF planes have longer legs, i.e. transports and tankers, thus more hours. Most of the Navy aircraft have short legs, meaning more take-off and landings; this is where most Class A mishaps occur and when you take into consideration where the Navy planes are landing then you can't even compare.
Given the choice of study halls and stand up routines common to the AF way I'll take the Navy program. I'm sure I studied just as much as the average AF guy, but I did it on the beach with a beer in hand. Show up on time and fully prepared for your brief or exam and no one will question where or how much time you spent studying.
like Wink stated above, i did a lot of my studying at Primary on Penascola Beach. i felt that i had enough "hand-holding" while i was at TBS, and when given the "opportunity" to attend Vance AFB for Primary, i declined
i knew several guys while i was in Advanced (Strike) that did their Primary at Vance and was struggling to get use to the Navy/Marine way of training ... i guess going from a stuctured, hand-holding method of 12 hour 'work' days to a less structured "come to 'work' when you are on the flight schedule but you'd better be prepared" method is fairly difficult, and vise-versa
and TSPO, "the stress inherent in landing on the boat is sufficient to weed out the weak ... na, the boat has nothing to do with it, it's the last thing you do in Advanced (Strike) and at the FRS. the Navy/Marine Corps lets you fail on your own, i.e. gives you lots of study time (on your own and without babysitting) and expects you to be professional and show up to your brief on-time and prepared, and if you aren't, you don't go flying, and a couple of those incidents and you are given the boot
semper fi
i knew several guys while i was in Advanced (Strike) that did their Primary at Vance and was struggling to get use to the Navy/Marine way of training ... i guess going from a stuctured, hand-holding method of 12 hour 'work' days to a less structured "come to 'work' when you are on the flight schedule but you'd better be prepared" method is fairly difficult, and vise-versa
and TSPO, "the stress inherent in landing on the boat is sufficient to weed out the weak ... na, the boat has nothing to do with it, it's the last thing you do in Advanced (Strike) and at the FRS. the Navy/Marine Corps lets you fail on your own, i.e. gives you lots of study time (on your own and without babysitting) and expects you to be professional and show up to your brief on-time and prepared, and if you aren't, you don't go flying, and a couple of those incidents and you are given the boot
semper fi
Hey Everyone,
I just came from VT-28 in Corpus to Vance for advanced E-6 training in with the T-1 squadron here. Now granted I have not seen everything by any means yet, but already I get the feeling that there is way to much of the "open your mouth up junior, here comes the airplane into the hangar" type spoon feeding mentality here. The feeling I am getting is that this is really a babysitting job where you get to occasionally fly (study hall would seem to be appropriate).
I attended my first "formal brief" today, all I have to say about it is that is seemed more like formal BS, by no means more difficult than my onwing grilling me on EPs and emergency situations right before my checkride, just done in a really bad way. It almost seems like they treat stud pilots like frosh in college (probably more so frosh at USAFA, but I have no means of proving this) more than commissioned officers.
Anyhoo, if this stays active I'll keep writing on my experience, till then, FLY NAVY!
I just came from VT-28 in Corpus to Vance for advanced E-6 training in with the T-1 squadron here. Now granted I have not seen everything by any means yet, but already I get the feeling that there is way to much of the "open your mouth up junior, here comes the airplane into the hangar" type spoon feeding mentality here. The feeling I am getting is that this is really a babysitting job where you get to occasionally fly (study hall would seem to be appropriate).
I attended my first "formal brief" today, all I have to say about it is that is seemed more like formal BS, by no means more difficult than my onwing grilling me on EPs and emergency situations right before my checkride, just done in a really bad way. It almost seems like they treat stud pilots like frosh in college (probably more so frosh at USAFA, but I have no means of proving this) more than commissioned officers.
Anyhoo, if this stays active I'll keep writing on my experience, till then, FLY NAVY!
T
TSPO
Guest
Why don't you get the stick out of your ass and get off my case. What's your problem? Angry about spending half your life on a boat? When I referred to the Navy style of training as laid back, I was referring to:
I guess it was him who was talking out of his ass, yet for some reason your problem is with me. Please, tell us why it is that your opinion on AF upt is any more valid than mine? I gather from your posts that you haven't actually been there, either. Guess what, I am there. When I say that it is a slap in the face to switch from the the Navy style to the Air Force style, I am relaying the thoughts of someone who has done it. Apparently, it is the introduction of the formal release and stand ups that is difficult for the guys to handle coming from Whiting. I never stated that any one training style was more intensive. What I said was that I would choose to do the harder training for the whole time; meaning that I think it would be harder emotionally to be treated like someone who can not be responsible for myself and to be required to sit around on formal release than to be given the freedom to study according to my own discipline. As I mentioned earlier, I agree that there are valid arguments as to the benefits of both styles of training, and that it can be severely detrimental to try to switch from either one to the other midway through. Anyway, here's another bone, maddog. Chomp down. For anybody curious, Bunky has carried over his disdain for me from another thread.
Thanks for the clarification, jarhead, as I said, I was speculating.
TSPO,
One thing about the net is that it's sometimes difficult to interpret the true intention of statement. What I've seen in most of your recent post is garbage. What I interpreted you to mean in your above post was just that. Don't try to bring others in or claim I have something against you. Like I said before, if I see what smells like ****, looks like ****, I will call it just that. You're right though, I haven't been through UPT, I only know a few who have. However, when it comes to naval flight training, I do know what I'm talking about and for someone who has yet to begin flight training, you're in a much more difficult spot to make comments about it, especially when your recent attitude comes into play. So you're wrong when you say I have disdain towards you. I would say your attitude needs an adjustment though. As someone else on this site knows from talking with me, if you actually carry on in "real life" like this, it could hurt you in terms of your future endeavors (ie UPT). My goal, just like it is at the FRS, is to get people adjusted so they put forth their best effort and finish the program. This may just be the net and a website, but it's a chance to pass on knowledge, wisdom, advice, motivate, or whatever. More than anything else, and this goes with anyone on this site, I would like to see you achieve your dreams and wear those silver wings proudly. That's why I call you out and pick on you so take it for what it's worth.
Bunky
One thing about the net is that it's sometimes difficult to interpret the true intention of statement. What I've seen in most of your recent post is garbage. What I interpreted you to mean in your above post was just that. Don't try to bring others in or claim I have something against you. Like I said before, if I see what smells like ****, looks like ****, I will call it just that. You're right though, I haven't been through UPT, I only know a few who have. However, when it comes to naval flight training, I do know what I'm talking about and for someone who has yet to begin flight training, you're in a much more difficult spot to make comments about it, especially when your recent attitude comes into play. So you're wrong when you say I have disdain towards you. I would say your attitude needs an adjustment though. As someone else on this site knows from talking with me, if you actually carry on in "real life" like this, it could hurt you in terms of your future endeavors (ie UPT). My goal, just like it is at the FRS, is to get people adjusted so they put forth their best effort and finish the program. This may just be the net and a website, but it's a chance to pass on knowledge, wisdom, advice, motivate, or whatever. More than anything else, and this goes with anyone on this site, I would like to see you achieve your dreams and wear those silver wings proudly. That's why I call you out and pick on you so take it for what it's worth.
Bunky