Navy vs Air Force

[46Driver]

Someone posted earlier about the lack of class unity on the Navy side. The reason for this is what is known as "time to train." It is a measure of how efficient training is and important to the bean counters at the Pentagon and the GAO. We have to keep time to train to a minimum or Whiting becomes vunerable at the next round of base closings.

As for the deployments, I'll agree that floats were better on a small deck. Did 2 on a big deck (LPH and LHA) and one on a small deck (LPD) - better time on the LPD.

 

[fnewton]

Class Unity-I think that the different start/stop times is decieving. I started with a certain group and throughout the primary pipeline I met new people and got to know them as well. So that certain structure helped me to get to know more people and shy away from the "cliquish" mentality. Besides, our primary CO (the mighty VT-6) kinda set the tone so our whole squadron was our "class." Newer guys looked to me for good gouge and I looked to older guys for good gouge. I think the class unity works well for a a college frat, but I'll soon be going to war with more people than just my "class" and I want to know as many of them as possible. S/F

 

[petescheu]

I think I pretty much read all the replies so far and if I'm correct there wasn't anyone that was actually in the Navy or Air Force that was actually in or had done UPT that had posted. I figured since I'm Navy and I'm currently at Moody doing the AF program I'd throw this out there for ya'll since I think some of you were curious to hear it straight from the horses mouth, per se. Here's the deal: pretty much a lot of what ya'll have heard is correct. UPT sucks (at least for the first half). Straight up. It is very intense training, you are not treated with the same respect that you are in Navy training (and lemme tell you, this really irked me after dealing with 4 years at USNA... being treated like a plebe again, at least for a little while, was not cool), and, like ya'll were saying, it is a much more formal style of training. However, as was stated, there are reasons for it. I def have to agree with the AF kid who said that class unity just isn't there in Navy training. I can't speak for Navy primary, but I do know that in API, class unity wasn't a big deal. Here, its just like plebe summer - you rely on each other to get through it. And you get really close b/c of that. And a lot of that depends on your class, of course, but my class is a good group so we have come together really well, and we really take care of each other WRT passing on gouge, etc. And in the end, I think it helps you to deal with the stress a lot more, because there is a very large amount put on you, esp with the 12/13 hour days. Stand up and formal brief is not that big of a deal, just something you get used to, just like I'm sure EPs in the plane you get used to eventually. It's just a different way of doing things. Tradeoffs though- I am flying the T-6. Fully digital cockpit, Aces II ejection seat (best in the inventory, AF at least, we can eject from 300 feet AGL inverted and still survive supposedly... I'll take that over a parachute any day), twice the power of the T-34, supposedly a better navigation package than the T-45C, and I'm actually older than the plane, instead of the plane being older than my parents. And I also pulled 5.5 Gs in the pattern the other day... I dont think the T-34 can do that either. So like I said, it's all tradeoffs. I think in the end I'll def be a better pilot for having to deal with all the stress, but it does suck.
Couple things I have to disagree with though, keeping in mind that I am only one person in one flight at one base...
1) I dont see the nitpicking in our instructors here that I've read about above. Most of the instructors here are actually really awesome, and are really fun to fly with. You have your few that aren't that much fun to be on a hop with, but I'm sure it's the same with Navy training too.
2) I don't think that the statements on guys coming from AF training hurting when they get back to Navy training are true. All of my friends I've talked to that went to AF training here and at Vance are actually way ahead of the guys coming from whiting or corpus because we get more hours, we actually do seriously close formation flying, and we get more instrument time too. And the kids coming from the T-6 that go to the T-45 are way ahead of Navy students b/c they know how to work and fly with an advanced avionics package.
That's just what I've seen so far. I def have to admit that life has gotten a lot better in the past couple weeks, but I think that's because my class's performance has allowed that. If you suck, your life sucks... Although one thing doesn't change- at least the first month is really rough. Although I still have a bit left. Any Q's about AF training lemme know, I'll try and answer as best I can.

 

[MJM1]

I have two quick questions, and I know people always ask these and im sorry but everyone says something different. In the AF is your chances to fly fighters greater than in the Navy? Last question is, is the wash-out rate more in the Air Force or Navy? I know these are common questions but im courious. thanks

 

[petescheu]

MJM1 -
That's a good question; from what I've seen here, your chances are def greater of getting fighters in the Air Force than in the Navy, simply because their selection is actually consistent. Each tract select they have here, they have 3-5 (usually 3, rarely 2) slots for a T-38, which is the AF equiv of the T-45. The F-5 (the "migs" from Top Gun) is the suped up version of the T-38; basically they are one in the same. With the Navy, selection is all messed up. I'm not quite sure what in the hell goes on down at CNET, but one week you could have 7 jet slots, the next week you could have 1. So one dude might have a 52 NSS one week and get jets, where as only 7 days later a dude with a 65 could get helos. Not sure why the Navy has never heard of the word consistency, but that's how it is. Here's the thing though... do you really WANT to be a fighter pilot in the Air Force. Everything I've heard/seen is that the community really is not fun, and I've seen some of the T-38 guys here when they are together in large groups, and they act like jackasses to be honest. Appears that the community is very competitive, very high stress, they go on very long deployments and none of their bases even compare to what we have in the Navy. That's just what I've seen though, but I would highly recommend researching it a lot more before you make a decision like that. A lot of people think that fighters is the end all be all of life. It's really cool, but you have to look at all of the aspects of the community before you dive into it.
Not sure about the wash out rates. Here at Moody I think we lose about two people per class on average.
Hope that helps.

 

[MJM1]

Shoo24-Thanks for answering my question. I would really like to fly fighters, but in reality, i know not to many people get to fly them, and its very hard just getting into the training program. I would appreciate any aircraft I was selected to but it has to fly. lol. Im only in hight school, and I want to make a commitment early to which branch I am going to so I can apply for the Air Force Academy or Naval Academy, or if I dont get into those, AFROTC or NROTC. Anybody have any suggestions to which branch I should choose? Keeping in mind, supporting a family in the future, and way of life, and which branch is better to be a pilot in? Any comments and suggestions would help!! thanks

 

[petescheu]

MJM-
Well I'm a little impartial of course being in the Navy and all, but I'll just put it this way... look at where all the Navy bases are (ie San Diego, Jax, Pensacola, Ocean (ie VA Beach), Hawaii, Everett (ie Seattle)). Then look at where all the Air Force bases are... booniesville. I'll admit Navy fighter bases (if you get jets) on the west coast are pretty much in the desert of Cali, but just compare where you'll be spending a large chunk of your life. Another thought is how much do you want to see the world... the Navy actually has port stops along the way (Australia, Japan, the Far East etc); I've not even hit the fleet yet and I've been to Italy and France already courtesy of the taxpayers. Air Force you just fly to some base in the middle of nowhere and fly outa there. Don't really get to see the world. But then again, you don't spend 6-9 months on a boat when you're on deployment. All a tradeoff man, just depends on what you want. If I were you I'd apply to both, just make sure you really research the Academies themselves along with the Air Force and the Navy before you make a decision like this; you'll be spending at least 15 years (time at the Academies plus time in the fleet) if you choose that tract, so learn all you can before hand so you know you're doing what you really want to do. Any Q's lemme know.

 

[MJM1]

Thanks so much! Im gonna give this some thought and research. Your reply really helped out a lot. Ya I think im gonna go for the Navy, but Im still going to think about it a little longer first. Thanks again!!

 

[x-wing]

Air force vs Navy

Please dont turn this into a flamewar

I'm trying too choose between joining the air force or the Navy. What is the differences during flight training phase? Also once you get you're wings do both pilots get about the same amount of flight time a month? I really love flying and since i was young i've liked the military so I put the 2 together and began thinking about a career as a military pilot.
I find that if i fail out of flight training in the Air force there arent many things i'd want to do ..... In the navy there are many things that I would like to do if i where to fail or quit flight trainign for whatever reason.

What is the life of a navy pilot like (fighters or helos)?
Who gets more flight time a month?(dont bust me for asking this; flight time is not what i'm basing my decision on)

I heard the navy has a more relaxed flight training routine?

What will i be doing when i'm not flying?

Whats life like on an aircraft carrier?



thanks you (i know it's long)

 

[bunk22]

I'm not a fighter or helo bubba but a prop guy (C-2A specifically) who flies off the boat. In general, once you complete flight school and the FRS (Fleet Replacment Squadron)you will be assigned to a fleet squadron. You will have a primary ground job and probably a couple of collateral duties as well. Some jobs are intense like assistant admin officer, legal officer, or assistant ops while others not so much. You will also fly and while I can't speak for other communities, if our aircraft were up and working, 25-30 hours a month was a good month. If we were in work-ups, hitting the carrier, 40 hours a month was not uncommon. On cruise, depending on the operation, it can get intense. During November 01, I flew 121 hours in support of OEF.

Carrier life, IMO, is a good time though it grows old quickly. Every day is Monday, so after time, things slow down into the same routine day in and day out. If you're not a tool, the time spent with buddies is bonding one. As a COD guy, we have much more free time than our fighter/attack cohorts so I look at it from a slightly different point of view. When we weren't flying or doing paperwork, we watched a lot movies, read alot, worked out quite a bit, and played many a game on the XBOX. Cruise really is what you make of it. Time away from family sucks but with email and potts phone line, it's easy enough to stay in touch.

I'm sure you will get an earfull on Air Force vs Navy flight training. If not, do a search and you may find what you're looking for.

 

[phrogdriver]

Quick answers.

Flight time is going to vary more based on type of aircraft than by service. Yes, there are exceptions, but more along the lines of "the exception that proves the rule." Heavy drivers, e.g. AF/USMC C-130s, Navy P-3s will fly a lot. Fighter types fly comparatively fewer hours. Helos are in the middle. Each heavy sortie is easily 4.0+, whereas helos will fly 2.0 or 3 and a jet may do a 1.5 on a training sortie. That's not to say that total flight time will mirror these proportions, just that they will add up quicker. The USAF will keep you in the cockpit longer initially than the USN/USMC, but once you leave the ckpt as a major in the AF, you may never see it again.

What you'll do when not flying. If you mean what you'll do when you're done flying for the DAY...in the USN/USMC you'll have a collateral duty. It may be as the officer in charge of a maintenance shop or working on the next day's flight schedule. The USAF has a reputation for not having as heavy a collateral duty responsibility, but I can't speak to it personally.

If you mean non-flying JOBS...the Navy may send you to sea as part of the ship's company. You could very well be the "mini-boss," helping run the air dept on an amphibious ship. There are a butt-ton of jobs out there. The USMC could have you as a fwd air controller, a staff job, or an OSO.

The Navy training is in a more relaxed atmosphere, but don't interpret that as being less rigorous or easier. It is less formal, but more fluid, more thinking on one's feet. That topic was beaten to death in another thread. My $.02 is that USAF primary grads are attrited at the cyclic rate from USN advanced helos and jets, whereas I don't think the same is true for those AF officers who attended Navy primary and then go to AF advanced.

I've never served on a CV, just big deck amphibs. It's one of those things where you can't wait for the day you're done, then you're ashore for a year and start saying things like,"Remember on float when we _____? That f---ing rocked!"

Well, those weren't exactly quick, but oh well...

 

[bch]

As far as flight training goes... I am in Primary at Corpus and I have a couple of friends doing primary out of Vance AFB.

You could not pay me enough money to go the AF route, here is why.

When I am not scheduled to fly or to be on watch, I have a day off (or as the case is right now, a few weeks off). My buddy, when he is not scheduled, he has to go into work and study for the entire crew day (12 hrs).

When we both finished API, I left and started primary. When he left, he had to go through the AF version of API at Vance again.

AF assumes that you have about 50 hrs of flying time already when you get to primary, the navy does not, therefore you aren't expected to be able taxi, takeoff, etc...

I am sure there are many more differeneces, but those are the ones I am familiar with.

GO NAVY!!

 

[x-wing]

I like the way the Navy trains their pilots. How long is the officer contract for pilots in the navy? I dont like the idea of the air force taking me away from the cockpit. Does the navy keep flying you even after couple of years? ( i know they wont as much but..) Do you guys say there is a better quality of life in the AF?

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

USN flight school is an "enough rope to hang yourself" approach. "bch" has it correct, by all accounts, in that the Navy isn't going to force you to pass. If you want to fail out you have every opportunity.

If you perform reasonably well in your first fleet tour (a 36 month tour) you can fly on shore duty if you'd like. Subject to retention, a good performer can go back to a flying job for his/her second sea tour as a carrier pilot. That isn't the case for P-3 and helo guys, necessarily, but is true for carrier guys (E-2, F/A-18, S-3, F-14 and E/A-6B, not all of which will be around by the time you get to the end of the training pipeline). Bottom line, if you bust your tail and do well while you're in the Navy, you could potentially be like a previous CO of ENTERPRISE: his first non-flying billet was nuke school as an O-6.

As for quality of life, the navy does have ships . . . You definitely get paid more in the AF (when they deploy they get per diem. Not the case for guys on ships) and you have a significantly lower chance of drowning or being lost at sea. Then again, where in the USAF can you sleep with a steam catapult two feet above your head?

 

[GunsVF-103]

hmm...

Yes, I'd have to say, USN...

Sure USAf, the quality of life is "better."
But you cant beat what you get in the USN...
I'm a wannabe Jet Jock, but what I've seen is that all ofthe Aircraft theat hte Navy has to offer have some excitement to flying them...
The EA-6B may just look likean ugly ECM bird, but remmber that she was based on hte A-6... just think about flyin' that bad boy into a Tracer-Filled, pullin some Ironhand duty with a big-ole HARM under your wing....
even the big, burly P-3... it's got a whole new mess of A-G weapons to keep you on your toes...
Or if you get helos, just hink of the possibility of flying a SEAL Team into a God-Forsaken Jungle... and then coming back to Pick them up.... there's youre adventure....


as for USAF... well, they got a LOT of Transports and stuff... and sure they got fields of their Small Combat Jets like the F-16, F-15, A-10 and F/A-22... but whre else can you learn to put a small, hi-perfomance A/C on pitching deck of a $6 billion boat with only a 500ft runway??
in hte USN, to actually get front seat in a Carrier Jet sez you Got Skills and Balls that only a rare selction of USAF exchange guys can somewhat compare to....