Navy vs AF

[J_L]

I've been reading this board for a long time, I'm deployed right now and got locked out of my old account
I've noticed there seems to be a fair number of people on here that "spent X amount of time in AFROTC, hated it, and then went NROTC." And was curious what was so different between the two.
I've always been interested in joining the Navy, (i enlisted in an ANG unit as a way to pay for college) and am a bit tired with the way the AF runs its self.
Thanks,
JL

 

[bch]

Here is an example from CU.

We had a tri service field meet. We showed up in boots and utilities. AFNROTC showed up in sweatpants, plain white T-shirts with lame phrases hand written on with sharpies, and (I swear this is not made up!!) about 3/4 of them had dyed PINK hair.

Come on, is this really training to be a Proffesional military officer? Seemed to me like a junior high toilet papering club for women.

 

[LastLap47]

Yup, I'm one of those cadets that want to jump over to the Navy. I am currently in my second semester in AFROTC and I am currently putting my package together for BDCP. What made me decide to move over was that in my detachment, achievement takes a backseat to hooking up friends. Despite my credentials (being accepted in a competive summer aviation program, cadet of the semester, and numerous other awards), I was never offered a position in the Cadet Wing while some of my peers were. During a POC/GMC swap (where the cadets that are about to head off to AFROTC field training take over positions normally held by cadet officers), it seemed like it was a slap in the face that I don't get a Cadet Officer position while somone who should've been kicked out of AFROTC for not showing up to Leadership Labs and PT does. I don't think it was a drawing to see who gets positions either since the GMC wing commander's friends got positions normally filled in by Cadet Lt. Col's and Cadet Maj's.

 

[bch]

Yup, I'm one of those cadets that want to jump over to the Navy. I am currently in my second semester in AFROTC and I am currently putting my package together for BDCP. What made me decide to move over was that in my detachment, achievement takes a backseat to hooking up friends. Despite my credentials (being accepted in a competive summer aviation program, cadet of the semester, and numerous other awards), I was never offered a position in the Cadet Wing while some of my peers were. During a POC/GMC swap (where the cadets that are about to head off to AFROTC field training take over positions normally held by cadet officers), it seemed like it was a slap in the face that I don't get a Cadet Officer position while somone who should've been kicked out of AFROTC for not showing up to Leadership Labs and PT does. I don't think it was a drawing to see who gets positions either since the GMC wing commander's friends got positions normally filled in by Cadet Lt. Col's and Cadet Maj's.

One thing to think about. There are a lot of times when a solid performer was not given a billet in NROTC, AFROTC or AROTC, but instead the "slacker" was given a billet.

The reason behind this: The unit may recognize that you are doing well, and therefore may not need as much help in developing leadership skills. However, the "slacker" defenetly needs some work on their leadership, hence the billet.

I by no means mean this in a derogatory way, but you are only a first year cadet. You do not know all that goes on in the billet picking. Part of learning to be a good leader, is to first learn to be a good follower. I am by no means trying to convence you to stay AF, but if this is the only reason you are trying to switch, that is pretty immature.

Something else to think about. Where do you think you are going to get the most leadership training, AFROTC or BDCP? BDCP has no real involvement in your leadership development prior to OCS. And I am sorry to say it, but in 13 weeks,you are not going to learn as much about the navy and how it works and how you should work in the navy, but in ROTC you will.

 

[Eagle32]

He we go again, and the standard great quote response from good ole Bob Norris. Even though it deals with the service academies, I think you will get a feel of USN vs the other gov't agency that thinks they can fly planes.
FLY NAVY!

USN or USAF?

by Bob Norris

Bob Norris is a former Naval aviator who also did a 3 year exchange tour flying the F-15 Eagle. He is now an accomplished author of entertaining books about US Naval Aviation including "Check Six" and "Fly-Off". Check out his web site at http://www.bobnorris.com . In response to a letter from an aspiring fighter pilot on which military academy to attend, Bob replied with the following:

12 Feb 04

Young Man,

Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.

Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your a$$ until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore.

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado.

Banzai

P.S.: Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits.

 

[J_L]

Thanks for the input, and Eagle; thats a great letter.

 

[Pags]

I'm gonna pistol whip the next person that posts that bob norris letter.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well despite being posted to death, that letter is spot on!

 

[gringo]

i did afrotc for a semester at riddle and hated every second of it. i dont know much about the military but when i was in afrotc all i could think was if this is what our military is god help us. but ive learned that its really not like that once youre in...i hope

 

[Blacky]

That letter is right on. And makes me even happier to be in the Navy vice the AF. AF guys would be cool if they ("they" meaning the ones I've met in my squadron) would pull the 9' iron rod that their primary instructors inserted up their bumholes. AF training is like being in kindergarten again from the stories I've heard. They learn to do things so they won't get yelled at; Navy guys learn to do things because they make sense and are the right things to do. AF hands you a novel with the things you can do; Navy hands you a pamphlet with the things you can't do. Hmmm... That will sink in tomorrow. As for the scarfs that AF guys wear.... wow... pretty gay if you ask me. Even the AF guys hate them. Seems a little fruity. But don't get me wrong. I'm not blasting AF guys or their equipment. They have lots of great people and stuff. Their training is just counter-intuitive and somewhat childish. In either case, the simple fact remains that we are all a part of the same team, as everything these days is "Joint." So you'll be working with some of the same people no matter what service you join.

PS - Anyone see the AF/Navy game this year? Nuff said...

 

[SteveG75]

He we go again, and the standard great quote response from good ole Bob Norris. Even though it deals with the service academies, I think you will get a feel of USN vs the other gov't agency that thinks they can fly planes.
FLY NAVY!

USN or USAF?

by Bob Norris

Bob Norris is a former Naval aviator who also did a 3 year exchange tour flying the F-15 Eagle. He is now an accomplished author of entertaining books about US Naval Aviation including "Check Six" and "Fly-Off". Check out his web site at http://www.bobnorris.com . In response to a letter from an aspiring fighter pilot on which military academy to attend, Bob replied with the following:

12 Feb 04

Young Man,

Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.

Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your a$$ until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore.

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado.

Banzai

P.S.: Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits.

USMC Addendum: And the hottest girl in the bar in Singapore is actually a guy. (Also applies to Thailand).

 

[zab1001]

If it is too good to be true, it probably is

USMC Addendum: And the hottest girl in the bar in Singapore is actually a guy. (Also applies to Thailand).

ALWAYS look for the adam's apple, "man hands", hairy knuckles, 5 o'clock shadow, and do a package check.

Not that I've ever been somewhere that somethign like that would be required... :devil_125

Air Force guys also iron their flightsuits...

 

[helmet91]

P.S.: Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits.

Pilots might... WSOs sure as hell don't. My dad prides himself on the fact he can prep and launder his own bag with no help from mom. Never once have a I seen an iron touch his flightsuit.

 

[zab1001]

No one is specifically bagging on anyone in the AF, just odd things they do.

There are shops in Okinawa that specifically cater to USAF aircrews by putting the same "backing" in flightsuits that you find in your khakis to hold the creases. Yes, 'creased' flightsuits. I've also caught a few in various O'Clubs who actually starched them (pilots and backseaters). I have never, ever, ever seen a USN or USMC guy do this.

Of course, they also let AFROTC guys wear bags to class...

 

[helmet91]

No one is specifically bagging on anyone in the AF, just odd things they do.

There are shops in Okinawa that specifically cater to USAF aircrews by putting the same "backing" in flightsuits that you find in your khakis to hold the creases. Yes, 'creased' flightsuits. I've also caught a few in various O'Clubs who actually starched them (pilots and backseaters). I have never, ever, ever seen a USN or USMC guy do this.

damn... things must have changed. pops would never be caught dead in a starched flight suit. he flew RF-4Cs for about ten years or so (active duty) and he's been the nav (full-time ANG) on the KC-135 for nearly fifteen. i've been away from active duty AF since 1987; I remember pompous a__hole pilots, but starching/creased bags?

i'll have to ask him about this later today...