Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October

[Treetop Flyer]

I do.

This year hasn’t been a nightmare at all. Far from it, actually. No required quarantine due to an exposure. Based off of talking to fellow parents, my guess is that over 95% of cases were asymptomatic and the parents got their kid tested solely for their own peace of mind. The others had a low fever for a day and/or a runny nose.

So I’m not sure why you think that children getting the vaccine is required to have a normal school year. Interesting that the scientific consensus can vary so greatly from state to state.

The only rational argument for placing restrictions on children was to try to prevent them spreading it to their families. Of course closing schools brings up the uncomfortable subject of sacrificing children’s futures for the supposed safety of adults, and masking has always been pointless, especially for kids. But at least there was some logic to it.

But now there are multiple vaccines abundantly available for a long time now. That excuse is gone because adults at risk have chosen to remain at risk. The data is already out there showing the lack of danger for kids and the lack of efficacy of restrictions placed on them.

 

[SlickAg]

The only rational argument for placing restrictions on children was to try to prevent them spreading it to their families. Of course closing schools brings up the uncomfortable subject of sacrificing children’s futures for the supposed safety of adults, and masking has always been pointless, especially for kids. But at least there was some logic to it.

But now there are multiple vaccines abundantly available for a long time now. That excuse is gone because adults at risk have chosen to remain at risk. The data is already out there showing the lack of danger for kids and the lack of efficacy of restrictions placed on them.

I also think a large, possibly THE largest, part of it was teachers’ unions. The good news for them is that the numbers are in and teachers were hospitalized at a lower rate than the general population. So they don’t have that excuse anymore.

“Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.”

Risk of hospital admission with covid-19 among teachers compared with healthcare workers and other adults of working age in Scotland, March 2020 to July 2021: population based case-control study

Objective To determine the risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and severe covid-19 among teachers and their household members, overall and compared with healthcare workers and adults of working age in the general population. Design Population based nested case-control study. Setting...

www.bmj.com

 

[Pags]

I do.

This year hasn’t been a nightmare at all. Far from it, actually. No required quarantine due to an exposure. Based off of talking to fellow parents, my guess is that over 95% of cases were asymptomatic and the parents got their kid tested solely for their own peace of mind. The others had a low fever for a day and/or a runny nose.

So I’m not sure why you think that children getting the vaccine is required to have a normal school year. Interesting that the scientific consensus can vary so greatly from state to state.

Where I am local rules require quarantine for exposure to a known case for 7-10 days for unvaxxed. Which means that my kids will be bouncing in and out of school until they can get a vax. If they were vaxxed then they'd only have to stay home if they were symptomatic. That's why I say this year will be a pain for me.

I'd also say that it's not so much the scientific consensus differs, it's that the local implementation of that scientific consensus differs based on various local factors.

 

[Jim123]

Why is anyone listening to politicians, radio hosts, military planners, etc regarding COVID??

Why not listen to the doctors, immunologists, and epidemiologists??

Why not listen to them all?

Medical professionals are advisory when they speak. That's their lane, to say we have options A, B, and C that will probably have outcomes X, Y, and Z for individual health and public health.

Politicians are executive level. They look at the big picture and take inputs from medical advisors, business owners, military, police, educators, various other members of the community, voters from every walk of life, and they make decisions.

Military planners are part advisory to the government and part executive within their own organizations.

Radio hosts are part of the fourth estate. They're supposed to keep everybody from the other three estates talking to each other, because talking is better than fighting.


At least that's the way it's all supposed to work, except people's understanding of civics in this country went to shit a long time ago. Then there's that Churchill quote about democracy not sucking as bad as every other form of government (I'm paraphrasing), so I think we'll be okay in the long run, just not great.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Where I am local rules require quarantine for exposure to a known case for 7-10 days for unvaxxed. Which means that my kids will be bouncing in and out of school until they can get a vax. If they were vaxxed then they'd only have to stay home if they were symptomatic. That's why I say this year will be a pain for me.

I'd also say that it's not so much the scientific consensus differs, it's that the local implementation of that scientific consensus differs based on various local factors.

My district asks kids to stay home if they’re symptomatic. Kids in both districts will be just fine. Perhaps try to change the backwards policy there.

 

[SlickAg]

Where I am local rules require quarantine for exposure to a known case for 7-10 days for unvaxxed. Which means that my kids will be bouncing in and out of school until they can get a vax. If they were vaxxed then they'd only have to stay home if they were symptomatic. That's why I say this year will be a pain for me.

I'd also say that it's not so much the scientific consensus differs, it's that the local implementation of that scientific consensus differs based on various local factors.

Local factors is a polite way of saying political persuasions. My point was that “the science” is being driven by politics.

I can’t wait to see the studies that show the long-term effects of learning loss and learning disruption due to these, at a minimum, awful three school years.

I’m impressed you’ll be able to stomach living there that long since you think it’s going to be a few more years before schools get back to normal in your area.

 

[Pags]

Local factors is a polite way of saying political persuasions. My point was that “the science” is being driven by politics.

I can’t wait to see the studies that show the long-term effects of learning loss and learning disruption due to these, at a minimum, awful three school years.

I’m impressed you’ll be able to stomach living there that long since you think it’s going to be a few more years before schools get back to normal in your area.

As Jim said the science is advisory to the politicians. Local politicians make decisions based on the science.

I'm not going to leave a house and a job and the associated loss over something like this. And frankly I've largely been happy with how my local area has dealt with COVID.

 

[JustAGuy]

That's what happens when a carrier CO takes the 'nuclear option' and goes to the press, resulting in months of lost Ao for a strategic asset.

That’s not what he did. Feel free to read the investigation:

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback that situation several months down the road, but I don't think Big Navy's hands are totally clean in that one either.

Out of order quotes, but as someone that was closer this situation than a vast majority of others I think a lot of the problem we have is using current information to dissect what was done weeks, months, and now years in the past. Not just in this case, or the US, but globally.

In the bigger COVID picture, you have to remember what everyone knew AT the time and not what we know now and try to put yourself in those shoes where what we didn't know vastly outweighed what we did know.

That being said response should adapt with new information, something that I don't think anyone has done very well. Sadly like so many other things, people are set in their ways and nothing will change their minds unless something happens to them personally.

 

[Mos]

I am fully vaccinated. I think anyone not getting vaccinated without a valid medical excuse is playing with fire and should live with the consequences of their decision without imposing any rules, restrictions or lockdowns on rest of us. If they refuse, get sick or die it's on them, not the vaccinated. Fuck them, they made their choice.

I would agree with all of this for the most part, but the problem is that while the responsibility is on the unvaccinated, the consequences are not limited to just them. Even if the symptoms for vaccinated people that get COVID tend to be minor, if the unvaccinated get sick and take up hospital space, then the problem has expanded beyond just them. This is why I can understand those that argue it is a public health issue requiring some degree if government action. That being said, I'm wary of how the government handles this, given how poorly the pandemic has been handled over the past year. The needs of society, the rights of individuals, and the competence/incompetence of the government are all working in tension.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Why not listen to them all?

Medical professionals are advisory when they speak. That's their lane, to say we have options A, B, and C that will probably have outcomes X, Y, and Z for individual health and public health.

Politicians are executive level. They look at the big picture and take inputs from medical advisors, business owners, military, police, educators, various other members of the community, voters from every walk of life, and they make decisions.

Military planners are part advisory to the government and part executive within their own organizations.

Radio hosts are part of the fourth estate. They're supposed to keep everybody from the other three estates talking to each other, because talking is better than fighting.


At least that's the way it's all supposed to work, except people's understanding of civics in this country went to shit a long time ago. Then there's that Churchill quote about democracy not sucking as bad as every other form of government (I'm paraphrasing), so I think we'll be okay in the long run, just not great.

I actually agree.

I meant just listen to the MD regarding the vaccine and anything regarding spread.

 

[Spekkio]

Out of order quotes, but as someone that was closer this situation than a vast majority of others I think a lot of the problem we have is using current information to dissect what was done weeks, months, and now years in the past. Not just in this case, or the US, but globally.

In the bigger COVID picture, you have to remember what everyone knew AT the time and not what we know now and try to put yourself in those shoes where what we didn't know vastly outweighed what we did know.

That being said response should adapt with new information, something that I don't think anyone has done very well. Sadly like so many other things, people are set in their ways and nothing will change their minds unless something happens to them personally.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not critiquing the decision on whether to go to the press, but just stating the fact that a major commander told everyone that COVID-19 was a significant risk to force, which resulted in lost operational time. Then senior leadership in the Navy listened to him... they treated COVID-19 just like that for the next year, which included extensive liberty restrictions placed on sailors in order to prevent it from recurring.

 

[JustAGuy]

There are two distinct parts of your post that I'll reply to.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not critiquing the decision on whether to go to the press, but just stating the fact that a major commander told everyone that COVID-19 was a significant risk to force, which resulted in lost operational time.

Once again I think you are trying to judge the decisions made then based on what we know now. Understandable as we have learned so much, but when this happened all we had to go on was the Diamond Princess case study which while also shipboard, differed drastically from what life on an aircraft carrier is actually like. The initial assessment made was based off the evidence at the time which said for heathy adults in the 19-35 age group the death rate would be as I recall 0.2%. Assuming deployed military personnel were probably the best group to catch a disease since they were already medically screened, that number was cut in half. That still would have equated to 5 sailors that would die because of the disease. Then put the calculus on ho many people would be on a ventilator in an ICU bed (Again halving the rate that was accepted at the time) and Guam simply didn't have the resources to cope with the numbers that were predicted.

Then senior leadership in the Navy listened to him... they treated COVID-19 just like that for the next year, which included extensive liberty restrictions placed on sailors in order to prevent it from recurring.

The problem is that they didn't listen to him at the time. The further problem I believe is what I referenced before, that they didn't adapt their response based on what everyone was continually learning about COVID. Then they looped back and took action based on what was known at the time (Even just a few months later) which was not what the situation was when it started.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I kind of take issue with the whole “he revealed the location of a strategic asset”

It’s not like a CSGs exact location isn’t known the entire deployment and a quick look online at social media would have given up everything going on.

Capt Croziers letter hardly had any of the consequences the senior leadership claimed

 

[Hair Warrior]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/10/10/military-vaccine-mandate/

This is going to be a complex problem to untangle for weeks and months to come.

 

[Spekkio]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/10/10/military-vaccine-mandate/

This is going to be a complex problem to untangle for weeks and months to come.

In what way is it a complex problem? Seems like a relatively clear cut policy.