Navy Missile Cruiser Runs Aground Near Honolulu

[exhelodrvr]

I think part of the problem is that the COs are so afraid of something bad happening that there is a tendency to not give the rest of the wardroom the chance to grow. And someone from that wardroom is going to go on to become a CO.

 

[HH-60H]

PS: In the merchant industry the Navy is considered a joke when it comes to navigation skills

In the Navy the merchant industry is considered a joke when it comes to killin' skillz.

 

[BigRed389]

Having been on two ships with ECDIS there is lag associated with displayed position, and especially in confined waters it is a big no no to be using it. THere are a lot of problems with relying on ECDIS... has it been updated with all the Notice to Mariners, new obstructions, buoys or navigation marks moved or no longer in existance? A chart that is properly maintained is a far more effective tool than a computerized map that can become outdated very easily.
Some ships are supposedly certified for electronic navigation only...some upgrades required, then a certification process afterwards. We are not, so we still take readings off the fathometer, still plot GPS fixes on the charts, which are maintained by the QMs.

Also buoy hopping ie illegal. Buoys can be moved or knocked out of place by ocean conditions or by a ship hitting them, they are only anchored to the ocean floor.
Buoy hopping is one thing, but if you fail to notice that the buoys are now passing by the wrong side of your ship, you're just not paying attention. And for a channel, looking down at the buoy line up should make it obvious if one is out of position or not.

BRM... we us it in the merchant industry and is just a take off CRM. Use all personnel and resources on the bridge.
When you consider how many people are involved in a S&A detail, it's amazing ships run aground at all.

Also having a screwed up gyro is no excuse. It should always be checked before entering and leaving port. Azimuths and amplitudes while out at sea and for in port, just check the true direction the ship is facing while at the pier.
It wasn't even a bad gyro, the system was set up to think the ship wasn't actually moving(pierside). Basically some enlisted ET didnt' do his job, and supervision was inadequate.

Training:
I don't know the extent of the training the Navy gives one before being allowed to take the conn, but here is what it takes to earn a license to take the watch as a 3rd mate at my school. While it can be different for other schools, it's really about the same as its required by the Coast Guard.

300+ days at sea as a cadet, 13 hours at the helm of the ship, 13 weeks in the simulator, and 4 years worth of classes before my class was given the keys to a ship as a 3rd mate. While I may not be sailing on my license my classmates are and some are on ships where the watch only consists of them and an Able Bodied Seaman who acts as lookout and helmsman.

Conns are pretty much untrained. It's usually the guy who just checked onboard. Supposedly mini-SWOS prior to checking in now, but that's just a few sim hours.

Also, knowing now what I know about the Merchant Marine and the difference in pay between them and SWOs/Navy in general, I'm amazed there isn't a mass jump to the Merchant Marine force. Must still be a secret.

.

PS: In the merchant industry the Navy is considered a joke when it comes to navigation skills

In the Navy the merchant industry is considered a collision waiting to happen.

In all seriousness, I've run into a lot of merchant ships that were obviously not paying any attention, not monitoring B2B radio, etc.

 

[burningfeathers]

In the Navy the merchant industry is considered a collision waiting to happen.

In all seriousness, I've run into a lot of merchant ships that were obviously not paying any attention, not monitoring B2B radio, etc.

And just what flag were said merchant ships flying? I'm willing to bet it wasn't ours.

 

[Flyboylance]

Some questions:

1)How is the OOD U/W not reponsible?
2)How is the CONN not responsible?
3)What does the "DIVO" have to do with S&A?
4)What's a MP issue have to do with running aground during boat ops?
5)How often did you have QMs and Combat correlate position to PIM when you were on watch?

Just trying to get a feel for how different commands view things policy wise.

As a former QM1, inside of a half mile from land we updated our plots every 30 seconds, using visual and GPS fixes.. When the OS's weren't sleeping they were doing radar fixes as well..

 

[Bugsmasher]

They managed to free her, finally.
Article

 

[BackOrdered]

And as we all predicted, skipper relieved. SWO life is tough.

 

[Morgan81]

...temporarily. We probably know how it'll turn out but facts are facts for now.

 

[m0tbaillie]

Can anyone tell me again why most other communities go to several months or even years of training while SWOs get OJT and a what, 2-3 weeks course before getting pinned? Even that seems to be in constant flux, everytime I hear the question asked ("what do SWOs do after USNA/ROTC/OCS") the answer seems to vary.

You'd think that being the largest URL community in the Navy, SWOs would have a big fancy school filled with folks with decades worth of experience teaching, training, simulating and stimulating noobs before they ever even step foot aboard a ship worth hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of lives.

 

[scoolbubba]

Can anyone tell me again why most other communities go to several months or even years of training while SWOs get OJT and a what, 2-3 weeks course before getting pinned? Even that seems to be in constant flux, everytime I hear the question asked ("what do SWOs do after USNA/ROTC/OCS") the answer seems to vary.

You'd think that being the largest URL community in the Navy, SWOs would have a big fancy school filled with folks with decades worth of experience teaching, training, simulating and stimulating noobs before they ever even step foot aboard a ship worth hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of lives.

Why train them when the department heads are just going to eat their JO's anyways?

 

[swerdna]

Can anyone tell me again why most other communities go to several months or even years of training while SWOs get OJT and a what, 2-3 weeks course before getting pinned? Even that seems to be in constant flux, everytime I hear the question asked ("what do SWOs do after USNA/ROTC/OCS") the answer seems to vary.

You'd think that being the largest URL community in the Navy, SWOs would have a big fancy school filled with folks with decades worth of experience teaching, training, simulating and stimulating noobs before they ever even step foot aboard a ship worth hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of lives.

What do you mean by getting pinned? It takes about a year to actually earn your SWO pin.

I think that the problem is that there's really no way to train for SWO outside of OJT. Sure you can do simulators and get a feel for how things work, but those only go so far. Much of the learning must be done hands-on.

New SWO JOs do not report aboard a ship and stand OOD U/W watch the next day.

 

[zippy]

SWOs all used to go to Surface Warfare Officers School in Newport RI for 6 months before heading to their ship up until 2003 or so. IIRC, SWOS going away had something to do with the idea that money could be saved by having new SWOs all complete the course via CD on their ship...

 

[BigRed389]

The point motballie is trying to make is that the SWO community offers no schoolhouse setting for CORE training prior to going on to a ship. Also, he's referring to SWOS after OJT, which IS 3 weeks.

A lot of SWO PQS could be taught in a schoolhouse setting, one which is readily available at SWOS. Trying to combine OJT with a demanding operational schedule means JO training is frequently neglected, as other things become higher priorities (INSURV, LOA, training cycle, etc.). Ship's schedules pretty much never allow a real "quiet" period. Combine that with reduced manning, which increases the workload of the SMEs onboard who would be good local instructors.

SWOs all used to go to Surface Warfare Officers School in Newport RI for 6 months before heading to their ship up until 2003 or so. IIRC, SWOS going away had something to do with the idea that money could be saved by having new SWOs all complete the course via CD on their ship...

What's with the Navy's fucking hardon for computer based training over competent instructors?

Most of the time the course software is broken, errors go for months/years without being corrected, and it's even starting to creep into what should be "serious" training. I stopped by the OS "C" School b/c the course was running adjacent to one I was in and an OS2 on my ship was in it...it was individually paced CBT with CBT testing.

 

[Spekkio]

Can anyone tell me again why most other communities go to several months or even years of training while SWOs get OJT and a what, 2-3 weeks course before getting pinned? Even that seems to be in constant flux, everytime I hear the question asked ("what do SWOs do after USNA/ROTC/OCS") the answer seems to vary.

You'd think that being the largest URL community in the Navy, SWOs would have a big fancy school filled with folks with decades worth of experience teaching, training, simulating and stimulating noobs before they ever even step foot aboard a ship worth hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of lives.

On the nuke end, yea we go through a year of training on the reactor, but all the topside and divo stuff will still be OJT.

 

[skim]

What's with the Navy's fucking hardon for computer based training over competent instructors?

Its called money.