Against his will? Transitioning (or not transition) has its consequences in all platforms. Every dude I know that has gone FAC from my T/M/S has volunteered to do so. YMMV and transitioning aircraft has its consequences.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Navy JTACs/FSOs
- Thread starter Anthony2000
- Start date
His side of the story is "they" were only taking current/proficient (which he was not due to the first FAC tour) NSIs/WTIs (which he also was not, just a SL/TERF-I) to make the W to Z conversion. Looked into going to the AF Reserve to fly F-16s, then Big Marine Corps dropped the interservice transfer moratorium. The V-22 transition was really the only gig he could swing to stay flying. I'm not gonna say the second and third FAC tour were against his will, but I don't think they were his first choices then or now, either.
Last edited:
A bit of an aside here, but I Iike to bring it up as much as possible where I see it.
There is a lot of bad gouge out there about this. Yes, the USMC will not sign a conditional release form. That doesn't mean you can't go join the Guard or Reserve to fly something, it just means that you have to separate from the USMC first. I did it. Yes you will have a break in service. I had a 4 month break in service. It was not a big deal at all. I just had to have my pay entry base date moved up 4 months. There was no going back to MEPS or any of that BS they try to scare you with.
Get a flight physical and a NATOPS check on your way out the door (bottles of bourbon and/or scotch really help grease these along) and Bob's your uncle. That hardest part is shaving your beard off when you put your uniform back on for your first day at your new squadron . (And somehow they all shrink when you put them in the closet for a few months).
Gonna resurrect this thread with some new info.
Talked to a prior-dissociated sea tour detailer and he told me to look into the MISR or Maritime ISR community.
Essentially these guys are experts at shortening the kill chain and coordinating assets.
The Course is at Fallon at NSAWC and they're taught by SEALs.
Hazy as to if they also train you as a JTAC at this course.
Apparently, one of the unit options rather than going to the boat is going to one of the Marine ANGLICO units. They're part of the MEF (Marine Expeditionary Force). Not sure if this is the same Billet as Air Officer for the Firepower Control Teams (FCT).
I've also seen Naval Aviators on LinkedIn with "Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer" at ANGLICO units on their resume's. One of them was a MH-60S guy.
The prior detailer said that MISR was a new and growing community and that commanders are requesting more of them so maybe it's a new billet?
Talked to a prior-dissociated sea tour detailer and he told me to look into the MISR or Maritime ISR community.
Essentially these guys are experts at shortening the kill chain and coordinating assets.
The Course is at Fallon at NSAWC and they're taught by SEALs.
Hazy as to if they also train you as a JTAC at this course.
Apparently, one of the unit options rather than going to the boat is going to one of the Marine ANGLICO units. They're part of the MEF (Marine Expeditionary Force). Not sure if this is the same Billet as Air Officer for the Firepower Control Teams (FCT).
I've also seen Naval Aviators on LinkedIn with "Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer" at ANGLICO units on their resume's. One of them was a MH-60S guy.
The prior detailer said that MISR was a new and growing community and that commanders are requesting more of them so maybe it's a new billet?
Last edited:
Wat?
I’m 95% sure they don’t train you as a JTAC. The MISR role is more of an ISR liasion role than a calling for fires role. Essentially you’d be the SME for how to request ISR assets/coordinate with them for whatever unit you’re assigned to. That’s how the MISR who deployed with my CSG in 2022 was used. I’m going to guess that would be the same for ANGLICO. @Brett327 would probably know more about the course particulars as HAVOC is right next to the MISR spaces in Fallon.
I'm sure things have changed a LOT since I left Fallon, but MISR and JTAC wouldn't have even been in the same galaxy (granted MISR was just like a little cubby of an office back then, and one lonely O-5 EP-3 dude, one other JO, and maybe a couple non aviators I'm forgetting about). Do we have seagoing JTACs now? CAS at sea? I'm thinking the term JTAC is being really stretched here.
I don’t see JTAC mentioned in the article he linked, which leads me to believe he might have gotten bad gouge. A MISR is definitively not a JTAC, and is definitely more focused on the left side of the kill chain.
Yep that is my thought too. MISR does super cool stuff too, just not the same stuff.
False. It's mostly taught by a hodge-podge of VP, VQ WTIs and various other randos. It's definitely not taught by SEALs. What MISR aspires to is pretty cool. What they actually do is kinda meh. I didn't really understand this until we started trying to integrate HAVOC and TOPGUN instructors into the MISR course. I think everyone was a bit taken aback at how disconnected it all was from how more traditional strike warfare works, plans, executes. The VP (and VQ) WTI world has successfully held NAWDC at arms length as the Executive Agent for ACTC, WTIs and TTP development in the NAE for far too long. The dysfunction that is MISR is evidence of that. The USAF is actually much better at performing the MISR function because their ISR platforms are integrated into the broader AEF construct. At the end of the day, MISR isn't something I would aspire to, or want to be a part of.
And to be clear (for Ventus), there is a JTAC course in Fallon, and there are a bunch of SEALs on that staff. Completely separate from MISR, and physically in a different building. Their classes typically were a bunch of ground pounder types, learning the FAC trade for whatever reason (collateral duty, job requirement on the teams, etc). The only aviators working there were on staff at NAWDC, and were mostly tacair backgrounds. "NSAWC" also became NAWDC, partway through my shore tour there, in the summer of 2015 if I recall that date correctly.
It's been a couple of years since I worked with the MISR guys, so perhaps it's changed, but this sums up my impression of it well.
Graduate of NAWDC JTAC course here,
The course is typically for SEALs/SWCC to become qualified JTACs by SOCOM standards for their respective platoons and sometimes FIRES Os would join them if they were not already JTAC certified. SOTACC, run by the Air Force, is also available for SOCOM operators to get JTAC qualified but typically SEALs/SWCC go to NAWDC
The course is typically for SEALs/SWCC to become qualified JTACs by SOCOM standards for their respective platoons and sometimes FIRES Os would join them if they were not already JTAC certified. SOTACC, run by the Air Force, is also available for SOCOM operators to get JTAC qualified but typically SEALs/SWCC go to NAWDC
That was my bad. I made an assumption based on what I heard from the individual I spoke to combined with the article and the JTAC + ANGLICO Wikipedia page. and didn’t realize they were separate positions.
1) MISR can be sent to ANGLICO per the detailer. The course is at Fallon.
2) ANGLICO also has position that is normally held by Marine Captains but sometimes Navy Lieutenants which is leading the FCT. This position requires you to be a JTAC and the course for that is also at Fallon.
3) There is also an Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer in ANGLICO held by a Naval Officer.
4) If you go on the current open billets pdf for the Marine Corps Reserve, in ANGLICO there is a billet titled “Air Officer” for an O-3.
To be clear I am still not clear on the overlap between some of these.
1) MISR can be sent to ANGLICO per the detailer. The course is at Fallon.
2) ANGLICO also has position that is normally held by Marine Captains but sometimes Navy Lieutenants which is leading the FCT. This position requires you to be a JTAC and the course for that is also at Fallon.
3) There is also an Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer in ANGLICO held by a Naval Officer.
4) If you go on the current open billets pdf for the Marine Corps Reserve, in ANGLICO there is a billet titled “Air Officer” for an O-3.
To be clear I am still not clear on the overlap between some of these.
As an aside, that particular dude was still there instructing MISR in 2022, which is nuts considering he was there when we both were back in 2015. I don't know if he and left and came back, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he just stayed.