Anyway, you could just go HSC. Their crewmen are basically seals, so it would be like working with them!
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Navy JTACs/FSOs
- Thread starter Anthony2000
- Start date
Anyway, you could just go HSC. Their crewmen are basically seals, so it would be like working with them!
I've known a few dudes in VFA land who have done the JTAC thing as a JO, but they're all senior O-4s or O-5s at this point. Right now, between flight school delays and being undermanned, they're having enough issues filling flying billets, so as a VFA JO the expectation is to essentially be on flying orders from your first fleet tour all the way through DH.
100% agree. Not sure if you saw this article and that drove your question, but big AF thinks the same way.
While the SOF community will likely have billets for pilots as Fires officers, I think with the increase of organic JTACs there will be less of a need for pilots running around on the ground like 10-15 years ago. Combined with the significantly reduced Middle Eastern presence, there just isn’t as big a demand. I think pilots involved with the teams, etc, will most likely be coordinating ASRs and being the ‘div o’ for the enlisted JTACs, aka, a lot of TOC time.
**Edit: when I say pilot, I really should say anyone with wings.
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That well is drying up for the single anchor types, almost every single pilot is being funneled back into a Super JO role. The Fires O billet is still open for WSOs, I know two that have screened for DEVGRU and a third with normal NSW within the calendar year.
Good shot, but bring the next one in just a few yards to the left.
I know an HSC pilot type who did a turn through the teams as a JTAC, but it was a one-off thing.
To the OP, the Navy just isn't set up to have a lot of pilots running around on the ground doing that stuff. And, as others have mentioned, the era of lots of SOF calling in lots of fires in the Middle East/AFG is over. There are jobs where you can get adjacent to the tactical stuff, but again, small numbers.
If you really want to get your boots dirty, you might consider other services. Marine pilots roll through stuff like this regularly. Or the Army street to seat route and then rush the SOAR. They're actively recruiting just because their turnover is so high (OPTEMPO related mostly). If not, just focus on being a great Naval Aviator. Most of the Team guys I worked with just wanted to work with competent professionals who knew their shit inside and out. They knew "swim fans" who were trying to cozy up to them and treated them with justified derision.
To the OP, the Navy just isn't set up to have a lot of pilots running around on the ground doing that stuff. And, as others have mentioned, the era of lots of SOF calling in lots of fires in the Middle East/AFG is over. There are jobs where you can get adjacent to the tactical stuff, but again, small numbers.
If you really want to get your boots dirty, you might consider other services. Marine pilots roll through stuff like this regularly. Or the Army street to seat route and then rush the SOAR. They're actively recruiting just because their turnover is so high (OPTEMPO related mostly). If not, just focus on being a great Naval Aviator. Most of the Team guys I worked with just wanted to work with competent professionals who knew their shit inside and out. They knew "swim fans" who were trying to cozy up to them and treated them with justified derision.
Honestly, if you want to do SOF aviation join the Army, fly a tour, and then volunteer for the 160th. The AF has AFSOC assets but they are really primarily used for the conventional fight. SOF is also spending a bucket of cash sending enlisted guys to Special Operations Terminal Attack Control Course (SOTACC), an AF course. BLUF, if you want to fly SOF, fly army.
JoeBob1788
Well-Known Member
We weren’t allowed to run any kind of mission, no matter the risk profile, without dedicated armed ISR and med air. The explicit expectation, and what we invariably did, was that we would use ISR to strike, and also spot our mortars. JTACs were of course crucial.
In a near-peer conflict, I have a hard time believing every ground mission will require dedicated air assets. No doubt having JTACs would still be nice, but I can’t see it being the go/no-go criteria it currently is. If employment decreases, demand decreases, supply decreases.
Always has been the case for NSW. Marine FACs I’m pretty sure are different but I’d defer to this forum on that, as I have no personal experience aside from meeting a grumpy Hornet pilot at airborne, who was slated for his third FAC pump and “just want to f’ing fly man”.
If you want to be a JTAC and a pilot, join the Marines. Solved it for you.
I don’t know many dudes who have done more than one FAC/AIRO tour. Getting stuck as a FAC for three tours against your will is unlikely (at least in TACAIR) unless your community doesn’t want you back. I’d be surprised if that dude was a pilot and not a WSO.
The next conflict isn’t going to look like the Middle East where on call CAS is always there and people will actually have to fight it out on the ground instead of just hucking a JDAM to solve the problem. JTAC/FACs will always have a place and be valuable, but our ability to conduct CAS in the high end fight and assets available for it will be very different.
I don’t know many dudes who have done more than one FAC/AIRO tour. Getting stuck as a FAC for three tours against your will is unlikely (at least in TACAIR) unless your community doesn’t want you back. I’d be surprised if that dude was a pilot and not a WSO.
Anthony2000
PRO-REC Y SNA
I appreciate all the great feedback! Tough to pick and choose sometimes. Some of you who commented I’ve spoken to personally and have some very unique one off JTAC experience as well as actual operators in the teams now in aviation!
A potential war with China will look very different, and there may not even be a ground element - at least in the traditional sense.
I know one Major who's about to do his third AirO tour. Originally an AH-1W guy, did a FAC tour, was not chosen to convert to the AH-1Z, did a TACRON tour, transitioned from AH-1Ws to MV-22s, did not progress at all as an MV-22 pilot, now going to 3d MLR to be their AirO. I won't claim he isn't a good pilot since I never gave him any Xs, but he doesn't really have any options to stay flying at this point.