Navy JTACs/FSOs

[MIDNJAC]

As an aside, that particular dude was still there instructing MISR in 2022, which is nuts considering he was there when we both were back in 2015. I don't know if he and left and came back, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he just stayed.

Haha wow, if it was continuous, that is impressive!

 

[vxc961]

That was my bad. I made an assumption based on what I heard from the individual I spoke to combined with the article and the JTAC + ANGLICO Wikipedia page. and didn’t realize they were separate positions.

1) MISR can be sent to ANGLICO per the detailer. The course is at Fallon.
2) ANGLICO also has position that is normally held by Marine Captains but sometimes Navy Lieutenants which is leading the FCT. This position requires you to be a JTAC and the course for that is also at Fallon.
3) There is also an Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer in ANGLICO held by a Naval Officer.
4) If you go on the current open billets pdf for the Marine Corps Reserve, in ANGLICO there is a billet titled “Air Officer” for an O-3.

To be clear I am still not clear on the overlap between some of these.

My info is dated (~2018) but on the Navy side ANGLICO is typically billeted by SWOs, and in my experience it was URL SWOs filling LDO/warrant billets.

That said, my unit had one general aviation and one pilot…they both had a leg up on the SWOs imo…I’m just not sure how much work it took for them to buck the system and get there.

 

[Hotdogs]

That was my bad. I made an assumption based on what I heard from the individual I spoke to combined with the article and the JTAC + ANGLICO Wikipedia page. and didn’t realize they were separate positions.

1) MISR can be sent to ANGLICO per the detailer. The course is at Fallon.
2) ANGLICO also has position that is normally held by Marine Captains but sometimes Navy Lieutenants which is leading the FCT. This position requires you to be a JTAC and the course for that is also at Fallon.
3) There is also an Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer in ANGLICO held by a Naval Officer.
4) If you go on the current open billets pdf for the Marine Corps Reserve, in ANGLICO there is a billet titled “Air Officer” for an O-3.

To be clear I am still not clear on the overlap between some of these.

Adding a better level of nuance here as well - There's a difference between an Air Officer, and JTAC/FAC (by function and billet). Although our ground brethren can use them interchangeably, there is actually a pretty significant difference. The Air Officer is probably one of, if not the most senior Aviator (Aside from the XO) at the larger or purpose built ground units (Anglico, Regiment, MEU, MARSOC). That person is probably a more senior Capt and/or junior Major who works directly for the CO. They're the ones running the entire JTAC program for Anglico to coordinate all aviation related exercises, evaluations, and deployment readiness. They are also typically a graduate of the MAWTS AOD course. I would not expect a sailor to check into Anglico and become an Air Officer (Not by policy, but usually by experience). In the smaller echelons, like Infantry Battalions, it is a crap shoot based off who the CO or OpsO wants in the Air Officer billet (TMS background, timing, and experience sometimes play a factor here).

The FCT Leader as a JTAC/FAC is way more fun on a personal level - small teams, type 1 controls, fun deployments (mostly), and lots of making shit go boom, etc. Air Officer is a little more "career enhancing" but they push a lot of power-points, emails, and attend a lot of planning conferences. CO typically keeps that guy or gal close to the flag pole for his expertise and input. Anglico can get a bad rep and looked at sideways from the artillery community because they're just fire support providers and not cannon cockers. Lots to unpack there about how Anglico does business in terms of unit structure and mission, because they're extremely unique in the DOD. They're often chastised by the other conventional parts of the Marines for various reason, but that is beyond this thread.

 

[Brett327]

As an aside, that particular dude was still there instructing MISR in 2022, which is nuts considering he was there when we both were back in 2015. I don't know if he and left and came back, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he just stayed.

He finally left around the end of 2021. I don't think his time there was continuous, but his last tour there was 4+ years.

 

[Waveoff]

False. It's mostly taught by a hodge-podge of VP, VQ WTIs and various other randos. It's definitely not taught by SEALs. What MISR aspires to is pretty cool. What they actually do is kinda meh. I didn't really understand this until we started trying to integrate HAVOC and TOPGUN instructors into the MISR course. I think everyone was a bit taken aback at how disconnected it all was from how more traditional strike warfare works, plans, executes. The VP (and VQ) WTI world has successfully held NAWDC at arms length as the Executive Agent for ACTC, WTIs and TTP development in the NAE for far too long. The dysfunction that is MISR is evidence of that. The USAF is actually much better at performing the MISR function because their ISR platforms are integrated into the broader AEF construct. At the end of the day, MISR isn't something I would aspire to, or want to be a part of.

Curious about the stance of VP and NAWDC in regards to TTPs and and ACTC. The MPRWS is located in Jax who develops our PQS, runs WTI, and publishes our tactics manuals. To the non WS world, we assume they coordinate with NAWDC for cross platform conops. I don’t know why them being physically located somewhere else effects our upgrading syllabus, unless the standard qualified PPC/NFOs are unable to achieve the missions expected by NAWDC/Boat navy. Idk if VP will ever fully join NAWDC, and I’m fairly certain the majority don’t want to move out to the desert to write pubs on ASW, losing their direct link with the east coast P-8 wing/aircraft.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Curious about the stance of VP and NAWDC in regards to TTPs and and ACTC. The MPRWS is located in Jax who develops our PQS, runs WTI, and publishes our tactics manuals. To the non WS world, we assume they coordinate with NAWDC for cross platform conops. I don’t know why them being physically located somewhere else effects our upgrading syllabus, unless the standard qualified PPC/NFOs are unable to achieve the missions expected by NAWDC/Boat navy. Idk if VP will ever fully join NAWDC, and I’m fairly certain the majority don’t want to move out to the desert to write pubs on ASW, losing their direct link with the east coast P-8 wing/aircraft.

I imagine the friction, if there is any, is that VP does things differently than just about every other community at this point.

 

[Waveoff]

I imagine the friction, if there is any, is that VP does things differently than just about every other community at this point.

Yeah with VQ going away, we are basically the only independent platform left (other than E-6, who basically larps in an air force mission). I will say the integration is getting more and more pronounced with VP present at Air wing fallon, RH, Grey flag, etc. As much as it kills me when crews mess things up in these exercises, it only highlights how we are not training to whatever the issues are outside ASW, and in some cases that the planners desperately need VP presence to help write the conops. We can definitely be a self licking ice cream cone of "this is the way" for whatever tactics the MPRWS puts out, until we have to actually execute it. While the MISR program is in its infancy, at least its funneling more VP prescence towards NAWDC from the enlisted aircrewman and Pilot/NFO perspective since there is no permanent Maritime WTI billet staffed over there.

 

[Brett327]

Curious about the stance of VP and NAWDC in regards to TTPs and and ACTC. The MPRWS is located in Jax who develops our PQS, runs WTI, and publishes our tactics manuals. To the non WS world, we assume they coordinate with NAWDC for cross platform conops. I don’t know why them being physically located somewhere else effects our upgrading syllabus, unless the standard qualified PPC/NFOs are unable to achieve the missions expected by NAWDC/Boat navy. Idk if VP will ever fully join NAWDC, and I’m fairly certain the majority don’t want to move out to the desert to write pubs on ASW, losing their direct link with the east coast P-8 wing/aircraft.

It isn't that they aren't physically at NAWDC. That wouldn't make much sense. I'm speaking more to the org chart structure and the institutional alignment that it would promote.

If nothing else, we could finally get you to stop calling your readyroom a wardroom.

 

[Waveoff]

It isn't that they aren't physically at NAWDC. That wouldn't make much sense. I'm speaking more to the org chart structure and the institutional alignment that it would promote.

If nothing else, we could finally get you to stop calling your readyroom a wardroom.

Haven't had a ready room since VT days. Otherwise we just call it the wardroom, the AWOs have their dub shop. If there's anything we would all hopefully agree on, its that someone sounds super lame when they call the P-8 "the jet". Its not, and never will be a jet.

Slightly beyond the scope, but almost no one in MPRA has a working JWICS account since everything lives on SIPR. Even at the Wing WTUs (what we call our east/west coast weapons school) we just don't have the spaces for it, which was a stark contrast from our tour of NAWDC. Once the next iteration of the P-8 rolls out in a year or so, its going to be a brutal process for the hangar situation.

 

[CommodoreMid]

CPRW-11 WTU has close access to a SCIF, whether or not they’re using it, IDK. It wasn’t certified when I was on staff so was a moot point then.

 

[Waveoff]

It’s ran by the MPRWS, and it’s much smaller than you’d want it to be. Definitely not able to support multiple people from multiple squadrons trying to do something if if came to it.

Wing 10 has the VQ spaces, but it’s far from the hangar and not collocated with the sim building like Jax.

 

[MIDNJAC]

It’s ran by the MPRWS, and it’s much smaller than you’d want it to be. Definitely not able to support multiple people from multiple squadrons trying to do something if if came to it.

Wing 10 has the VQ spaces, but it’s far from the hangar and not collocated with the sim building like Jax.

I was just down at said nerd part of base recently. My dad was visiting, and he pointed out which old hangar had once been his, 50 years ago, when he was in his final years with VP-69 before retiring. I should have asked him about the SCIF situation

 

[wink]

That said, my unit had one general aviation

Might be a buddy of mine. Was he a prior Marine grunt from AZ?