Navy Denied My Criminal Waiver for A Commission

[fyr3wyr3]

If you have the time I would greatly appreciate it if you would read what I have to say. My situation is that I was denied a criminal waiver due to having 7 offenses when supposedly a maximum of 3 is allowed for a criminal "moral" waiver. I am an Korean male born in the states and am 24 yrs old. My offenses are

1 Chart D 1- Major Misconduct - Arson (burned a plastic target shopping cart)
2 Chart C's 2- Misconducts - Marijuana possession and criminal mischief
4 Chart B's 4- Non traffic Violations - underage drinking, loitering, disorderly conduct and curfew violation

both chart C's, 2 of my chart B's, and my chart D offenses were when I was 15 and 16. The other 2 chart b's were when i was 17.

After research, it seems the navy has unofficially raised it's standards, meaning 3 offenses is not normally a max for a waiver. I have been contemplating non stop on literally ALL possible/plausible scenarios to either work through or get around this particular issue.

What I have done so far:
I have talked to my recruiter twice now and he is saying there is seriously nothing I can do other than pursue other branches. I've talked to a marine corps recruiter and he "slammed the door" in my face harder than my recruiter. I've contacted a JAG lawyer and he doesn't think he can help me because a person "does not have the right to serve in the military" so it's completely a discretionary call as the "official" max offense waiver charts are not violated. I've done much research googling this topic with little to no success. My fiance works for two attorneys and were all somewhat close so i have them looking at it in their spare time, but so far it seems what they can do would only affect the civilian world opportunities.

The only other things I can think of are two which i have not done yet. The first consists of getting a medical waiver for Accutane (Acne medication) to waive some of my criminal records for the navy, hopefully bringing them down to 3 from 7. I am trying this because my buddy was able to get a medical waiver for Accutane which waived his records for the navy.

The second path is to go political, meaning trying to talk to senators, state representatives, and other politicians who can "turn the heads" of the military. I have always made great first impressions in interviews and to other people based off of their feedback so I hope to be able to meet with some politicians. All my friends and family want to help me as well in this and are willing to write letters to the politicians telling them basically whats on paper is not indicative whatsoever of my character or what I believe in today.

Right now all I'm concerned about is getting a "acceptance/pickup" for Navy OCS because I'll be able to prove my self somewhat until I'm sure I'll have to fight this battle again to go pilot.

Please guys there MUST be some "outside the box" way of tackling this issue. I need to "prove" somehow to those who make the decisions/calls that there is significantly much more to me than that which meets the eye on paper. I cannot express to you all how much it means to me if you could please give me any plausible/possible advice/ideas/suggestions/tips to help support me to continue pursuit for my dream. All I want more than anything in the world is not to be a fighter pilot, but rather to have a single fair opportunity to become one because I know I will if given that chance.

I am a very unique person who currently accomplishing so many great feats and truly feels destined for greatness, but unfortunately I have taken a rocky and "looked down upon from society" type of approach to get to where I am. You must understand that being an only child, growing up as a korean born american in a predominantly white society, and being raised by a single mother I have always had the power to determine what kind of a man I wanted to be (a loner constantly trying to identify himself with little male guidance but with those he looks up to). Very unfortunately, I "lost it" from 15-18, but have learned from my mistakes like no other and bounced back harder than anyone i know (Full time GPA since spring 08 is 3.85 vs one point something prior to that). My whole life story has always been about defying the odds and adapting to overcome in order to succeed so I believe this is the case here as well.

I don't know how much it means to you guys, but I truly believe I am destined for this path even though that's not what is occurring right now. I absolutely know in my heart I have the capability to fully be the best candidate at OCS and Flight School if only I was given a single opportunity.

I am in desperate need for help here and I truly believe "where there's a will there's a way." I honestly feel for some reason in my heart that there are specific people out there who will believe in me, look past what's on paper, and have the power to make a difference here. As long as I can, I cannot stop as this is my dream... this is all I have ever wanted and have literally geared everything in my life towards this goal for the past 5 years.

Please do not waste your time responding with all sorts of negative and derogatory remarks as I was swamped with those in the Yahoo Answers Forum. That won't help me. Thanks for reading my story guys and I hope you can help me.

 

[OUSOONER]

First of all...there is no reason to spam the forum with your plea for help. You could have posted it once and someone would have read it. Three posts about the same thing is overkill and just clutters things up.

It sounds like you made a lot of bad choices growing up. There are many of us here today who have earned a commission that have also taken a unique path to get here. Unfortunately, the Navy isn't hurting for bodies right now, neither are the Marines with respect to pilots. They can afford to be picky and right now they can up their standards. The armed forces aren't there to give people their "dream shot" at whatever they want to become. If you are young enough, maybe the enlisted route would be a good place for you to start...it sounds like you have mixed emotions and from what I gather, one of your main motivations it seems is just to go out there and prove people wrong about you and to prove something to yourself. However, don't go enlisted if you're just wanting to become a pilot...but it is something to look at if you're really just wanting to serve a greater cause.

We're over manned right now and I can understand why the recruiters aren't looking at you very seriously. I had an abysmal GPA in college but I kind of lucked out that the timing was good for getting a pilot slot, in today's climate maybe I would be on the outside looking in too.

I also don't know about getting waivers to replace other waivers... a selection board isn't going to go "oh well this criminal record was dropped so no worries..." No, it is a whole person concept they will look into anything and everything about you to gauge what kind of person you are before accepting you into Naval Aviation.

The barriers to Naval Aviation are there for a reason..not everyone gets to be one. That's what makes us the most elite of bad asses out there. I really don't know what to tell you, all you can do is keep trying until you've exhausted all opportunities.

 

[S.O.B.]

You could always enlist and apply for a commission in a couple of years.

 

[warface]

You should have thought about your "dream" before you decided to break the law 7 times.
I have a clean record and was a non-select the first time I applied.

It will piss me off real good if someone with > 3 criminal offenses made it in and I didn't.
What would piss me off even more is if a fuckin' guy like you was the pilot of an FA 18 Hornet and I had to fly with ya.
IMO, one or two criminal offenses isn't really a big deal because people make mistakes.
But when you just plain dont give a shit about consequences, taking in a guy with 7 offenses is going to have repercussions in the future.

Please do me and any other would-be Naval Officers a favor and find another "dream".

 

[fyr3wyr3]

sorry OUSOONER, i just started posting in areas I thought were relevant to attract the most attention and gather the most responses. Thank you for not being negative. I agree with you regarding the demand for men in the marine corps and navy and I think its partial to the economy and to the demand for personnel a couple years back. I've committed myself to doing exactly what you said ("exhausting all my possibilities and opportunities") several years ago, but I'm just patiently working and waiting for that one visibly clear opportunity to pounce all over it. I think somehow you have a great way of "seeing" me as you pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I am as a person which has much to do with being a only child Korean born American in a predominantly white society raised by a single mother (referring to OUSOONER saying, "it sounds like you have mixed emotions and from what I gather, one of your main motivations it seems is just to go out there and prove people wrong about you and to prove something to yourself."). I got to choose and still continue to choose exactly what kind of man i want to be. If you have any other suggestions in the future please let me know as I am willing to take your advice. thanks

 

[HH-60H]

Please only start one thread on a topic.

 

[fyr3wyr3]

Im sorry you feel that way warface. One of my biggest goals recently is to master my character, may i politely suggest you do the same? In any case, I have learned from my mistakes better than almost anyone I know and all I want essentially is the opportunity to prove it to the navy and people like you. I fully understand your perspective and that of our armed forces in this matter, and all i am trying to prove is that i am NOT a liability like i was when i was younger. You would need to understand my unique upbringing before stating such vulgar remarks which i already asked not to do. In all honesty and respect, competing for an F18 slot against you and/or people with your mindset would be my absolute honor and privilege and that's all i want is the opportunity.

 

[S.O.B.]

You should have thought about your "dream" before you decided to break the law 7 times.
I have a clean record and was a non-select the first time I applied.

It will piss me off real good if someone with > 3 criminal offenses made it in and I didn't.
What would piss me off even more is if a fuckin' guy like you was the pilot of an FA 18 Hornet and I had to fly with ya.
IMO, one or two criminal offenses isn't really a big deal because people make mistakes.
But when you just plain dont give a shit about consequences, taking in a guy with 7 offenses is going to have repercussions in the future.

Please do me and any other would-be Naval Officers a favor and find another "dream".

You sound like a real "team player" do me and other Naval Officers a favor and lighten up...

 

[fyr3wyr3]

S.o.b. if i did that, wouldn't that more than likely make me ineligible for flight status? tactical aviation dept to be particular? I am already 24 turning 25 in late july. I love my country and our military, but being a fighter pilot in particular is more what i want than anything. I would definitely work my way down if I seriously could not achieve my ultimate objective, but i feel if i did enlist to go officer later i would end up too old. please tell me if i am wrong

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I think somehow you have a great way of "seeing" me as you pretty much hit the nail on the head with how I am as a person which has much to do with being a only child Korean born American in a predominantly white society raised by a single mother.

I hope you aren't trying to make excuses for what happened in the past. My first reaction was tough shit, you screwed up. You did screw up, but it seems like you got in trouble for doing stupid, relatively harmless stuff. You should have learned your lesson after one offense, but you probably don't need me to tell you that. If you have really changed your ways then best of luck to you but just know that now is really a bad time to be trying to overcome this stuff. The Navy and Marines can afford to be picky right now.

Warface, lighten up indeed.

 

[fyr3wyr3]

I hope you aren't trying to make excuses for what happened in the past. My first reaction was tough shit, you screwed up. You did screw up, but it seems like you got in trouble for doing stupid, relatively harmless stuff. You should have learned your lesson after one offense, but you probably don't need me to tell you that. If you have really changed your ways then best of luck to you but just know that now is really a bad time to be trying to overcome this stuff. The Navy and Marines can afford to be picky right now.

Warface, lighten up indeed.

No im sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to when OUSOONER said, "it sounds like you have mixed emotions and from what I gather, one of your main motivations it seems is just to go out there and prove people wrong about you and to prove something to yourself."

And thank you soo much for being supportive Treetop, if you have any advice please let me know. Thanks bro

 

[S.O.B.]

I believe you have to be commissioned prior to 27 for SNA and 29 for SNFO (someone correct me if I'm wrong and I probably am). When I was commissioned it was different, in fact I think SNFO went all the way up to 35. The point that I was making is that if you've had some issues you can prove yourself for a couple of years or less and apply from within, I know I would have never been accepted had I applied as a civilian. If it were me and the man was telling me no, maybe I would enlist and apply every six months until I got accepted.

 

[Bevo16]

If you think that you can "go political" and get anywhere, let me tell you how that process works.

1. You write a letter to your rep, and he (actually some intern or staff flunkie) routes the inquiry through the tasker system.
2. A GS-7 civilian secretary at BUPERS sorts through the taskers and routes it to some poor desk jockey to draft the response (and an O-5 or O-6 gets CC'd on the e-mail so he knows what desk jockey got the booger flicked on him).
3. Desk jockey reads congressional inquiry, slaps himself in the face, curses shore duty, and wonders what part of "excess criminal activity" the congressional lackey did not understand.
4. Deck jockey walks into boss' office and asks "Sir, do I really have to waste time on this bullshit?"
4b. Desk jockey already knew the answer, so he drafts profanity laced/ridiculously sarcastic response to congressman's office and sends it to his boss with title "Will this do?" As soon as he hits send, he breaks out the instructions so he can remove the sarcasm/profanity and insert chapter and verse as to why you don't qualify.
5. Desk jockey sends boss actual response, and they share a laugh at how silly the inquiry is.
6. Boss sends response to secretary for letterhead, and admin action (clearing the tasker).
7. Congressional lackey in DC gets the response and forwards it to you.

The bottom line is that politicians are not going to "turn the heads" of anyone who sits on selection boards in your favor.

You also have to understand that these boards are a competition. Just getting your criminal activity under some bar does not mean that you are going to get selected. You actually have to be better than the other applicants. The people you are going to be up against have solid grades in high school and college, community service, varsity college athletics, etc, etc, etc. You are trying to figure out how to convert a criminal waiver into a drug waiver.

I am sure you are a nice guy, and as "unique" as they come. Selection boards are not looking for snowflakes, they are looking for people who show a high propensity for being a quality officer and aviator.

If you really want to serve, you should enlist (if you even qualify for that). If your only goal is to be a fly fighters, you should not even think about joining the Navy. Just search "What % get jets" for some more insight on that.

 

[fyr3wyr3]

You also have to understand that these boards are a competition. Just getting your criminal activity under some bar does not mean that you are going to get selected. You actually have to be better than the other applicants. The people you are going to be up against have solid grades in high school and college, community service, varsity college athletics, etc, etc, etc. You are trying to figure out how to convert a criminal waiver into a drug waiver.

I am sure you are a nice guy, and as "unique" as they come. Selection boards are not looking for snowflakes, they are looking for people who show a high propensity for being a quality officer and aviator.

Thank you for your reply Bevo, one of the concepts that make me "unique" is my ability to concretely adapt in any situation and shape my personality accordingly. This is how I KNOW I am not in any way shape or form the way I was. I, as well as many others around me, also strongly believe that I hold and show ALL the attributes with "a high propensity for being a quality officer and aviator." It's just my significant misfortune to not have that on paper in my younger years. If you have any further suggestions please let me know. thanks

 

[bubblehead]

1 Chart D 1- Major Misconduct - Arson (burned a plastic target shopping cart)
2 Chart C's 2- Misconducts - Marijuana possession and criminal mischief
4 Chart B's 4- Non traffic Violations - underage drinking, loitering, disorderly conduct and curfew violation

both chart C's, 2 of my chart B's, and my chart D offenses were when I was 15 and 16. The other 2 chart b's were when i was 17.

Some questions:

Hold old are you now? What have you been doing between the time you were 17 and now?

Were there any legitimate extenuating circumstances that would help to explain your patter of misconduct (e.g., deaths in the family, physical abuse, clinical depression, etc.)?

What would the rest of your application package look like? Degree? Grades? Volunteering? Have you gotten into any trouble since you were 17? Does your time in college indicate that you have learned from your mistakes? Employment?

You have to understand that there are many highly qualified people applying for OCS who have zero criminal/drug backgrounds/history.

A recruiter may not want to work with you because it's simply too much leg work on his part, given your history, esptically when he has 20 other folks with stellar backgrounds knocking on this door.

Your best bet may be to enlist, prove yourself, and then apply for OCS. There are plenty of other folks who have gone this route.