n00b questions

[Python]

Relatively new to USNR (I came off of active duty into a CNATRA SAU) and was looking for clarification on a few things. I tried google first, and didn’t really get the answers I wanted (could be weak Google fu).

The questions are about reserve retirement and they are thus:

1) For a good year, does the clock start on USN commissioning anniversary, or USNR entrance anniversary?

2) Do AFTP drills and ADT orders count towards retirement points?

I tried using this site: https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/N...rstanding-a-good-year-for-reserve-retirement/

For question 1, the site ambiguously says “This is the Sailor’s individual Reserve year, which typically begins on the anniversary of their first day in the Reserve or date commissioned and ends the day prior to the anniversary.” The ‘or’ in there is throwing me off.

For question 2, the site says “You receive one point for each drill period performed (e.g., Inactive Duty for Training (IDT)); one point for each day of active service (e.g., Annual Training (AT), mobilization); and one for each day of funeral honors. You may also earn points from approved correspondence courses.” Since the site is geared toward the USNR in general and not for aviators, it left me hanging.

Sorry for the basic questions and thanks in advance.

 

[Gatordev]

Dude! Did you even SEARCH!!!!

(kidding)

Your anniversary year starts on your day of commission or date of entry of service (or whatever that's called...the day you came on active duty permanently, ie not MIDN cruise). So if you left AD mid-anniversary year, your points you got up until that point still count.

All additional drills (AFTPs and RMPs) count as one point. Regular drill points (which I'm totally forgetting the name right now) also count as one point. So you can gain 2 points in one day when you're drilling vs one point when you're on orders. And yes, ADT points count too, but only as one point/day. So it's possible to earn more at your retirement day than an AD retiree, but the AD retiree has been getting his "lower" payout a lot sooner.

Make sense? The correct answer is, "no," and that's totally okay, but it's a place to start. I have a whole brief and also cheat sheet on this stuff I'd go through with JOs when they were thinking of transitioning.

 

[Jim123]

You should have got paid one drill for a SAU/reserve indoc (which would have included an hour or two of reserve admin for dummies).

No worries... those are all normal new guy questions.

I know the line "nobody cares about your record as much as you do" is pretty annoying to hear on active duty, but it's just as true in the reserves. There are a few official systems for keeping track of it (and a few unofficial ones like spreadsheets on the local share drive), but it's still good practice to read every LES and to regularly check your retirement points in NSIPS. NSIPS is actually a pretty good system, as far as DOD IT systems for personnel management go.

 

[bubblehead]

2) Do AFTP drills and ADT orders count towards retirement points?

Yes.

Read RESPERS M-1001.5 - Navy Reserve Personnel Manual thoroughly.

If you have other admin questions, PM me.

 

[snake020]

Also, be sure you understand the difference between "good year" and "satisfactory year". Good year is based on your anniversary date and determines whether you earned a qualifying year (≥50 points) towards retirement. "Satisfactory year" is by fiscal year, and is specific to your participation in the Reserve; it means you satisfied or received a waiver for AT requirements and had the requisite number of satisfactorily adjudicated drills during the FY.

 

[SlickAg]

@Python1287 , PM me your email address and I’ll send you a pretty good PowerPoint some TW-4 dude put together a few years ago.

 

[AIRMMCPORET]

?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Can someone show me in writing where it defines anniversary year? I too had been under the impression that it was normally your AD commissioning date (barring some break in service), but I have since heard conflicting info that it is your date of affiliation with the USNR. Honestly, administratively it would make more sense if the latter were the case in some scenarios, but that hasn't been the gouge I have heard up until now. Makes little difference for me since I was a march commission and affiliated with SELRES this feb, but could have an impact for those who traditionally commission in may/june and may affiliate at random months due to being years after MSR as I did (or because flight school skewed the dates).

I think Gator's post summarizes the points pretty well. You're in a "hardware" flying SAU. You won't run any risk of not making a good year if you even come close to 3710 FY flight hour mins. 132 annual drill max equals 66 ADSW or IDT fly days per year, subtracting any mandatory non-flying admin DWE stuff your SAU may or may not do (ours burns 4 drill days/year not flying). You obviously have 2 weeks of AT built in, and also as many days on orders as the budget and your availability might allow. But if you aren't burning a lot of orders, if you subtract wx/mx cancel days and sim days (which of course count towards your 100 hrs in part), you will still need to fly probably close to the max if you are flying short tacair sorties. Which means double the points that qualify as a "good year" IIRC. My non-airline work schedule puts me in the "not a lot of orders" crowd currently, so I do 6-7 drill days a month, which is the glide slope numerically to run out in late summer, as well as maximize monthly income of course

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Can someone show me in writing where it defines anniversary year? I too had been under the impression that it was normally your AD commissioning date (barring some break in service), but I have since heard conflicting info that it is your date of affiliation with the USNR. Honestly, administratively it would make more sense if the latter were the case in some scenarios, but that hasn't been the gouge I have heard up until now. Makes little difference for me since I was a march commission and affiliated with SELRES this feb, but could have an impact for those who traditionally commission in may/june and may affiliate at random months due to being years after MSR as I did (or because flight school skewed the dates).

I think Gator's post summarizes the points pretty well. You're in a "hardware" flying SAU. You won't run any risk of not making a good year if you even come close to 3710 FY flight hour mins. 132 annual drill max equals 66 ADSW or IDT fly days per year, subtracting any mandatory non-flying admin DWE stuff your SAU may or may not do (ours burns 4 drill days/year not flying). You obviously have 2 weeks of AT built in, and also as many days on orders as the budget and your availability might allow. But if you aren't burning a lot of orders, if you subtract wx/mx cancel days and sim days (which of course count towards your 100 hrs in part), you will still need to fly probably close to the max if you are flying short tacair sorties. Which means double the points that qualify as a "good year" IIRC. My non-airline work schedule puts me in the "not a lot of orders" crowd currently, so I do 6-7 drill days a month, which is the glide slope numerically to run out in late summer, as well as maximize monthly income of course

https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1800Retirement/Documents/1820-050.pdf

This says your commissioning date, but it could change with a break in service

For Marines it seems different, and my anniversary date matches this, which says date of original entry. For someone like me that did OCS as PLC JR’s and SR’s two different summers, I get some bonus credit.

https://www.marforres.marines.mil/Portals/116/Docs/G-1/IPAC/Documents/RETIREMENT%20AWAITING%20AGE%2060.pdf

 

[MIDNJAC]

Thanks Treetop. That is in accordance with basically everything I have ever heard as well, aside from this recent conflicting argument.

 

[SlickAg]

Can someone show me in writing where it defines anniversary year? I too had been under the impression that it was normally your AD commissioning date (barring some break in service), but I have since heard conflicting info that it is your date of affiliation with the USNR. Honestly, administratively it would make more sense if the latter were the case in some scenarios, but that hasn't been the gouge I have heard up until now. Makes little difference for me since I was a march commission and affiliated with SELRES this feb, but could have an impact for those who traditionally commission in may/june and may affiliate at random months due to being years after MSR as I did (or because flight school skewed the dates).

I think Gator's post summarizes the points pretty well. You're in a "hardware" flying SAU. You won't run any risk of not making a good year if you even come close to 3710 FY flight hour mins. 132 annual drill max equals 66 ADSW or IDT fly days per year, subtracting any mandatory non-flying admin DWE stuff your SAU may or may not do (ours burns 4 drill days/year not flying). You obviously have 2 weeks of AT built in, and also as many days on orders as the budget and your availability might allow. But if you aren't burning a lot of orders, if you subtract wx/mx cancel days and sim days (which of course count towards your 100 hrs in part), you will still need to fly probably close to the max if you are flying short tacair sorties. Which means double the points that qualify as a "good year" IIRC. My non-airline work schedule puts me in the "not a lot of orders" crowd currently, so I do 6-7 drill days a month, which is the glide slope numerically to run out in late summer, as well as maximize monthly income of course

Everyone's anniversary year is different depending on their situation. For your run-of-the-mill dude getting out at their MSR it's the commissioning date from ROTC or the academy. For OCS it's different, either the day they start OCS or the day they became a BDCPer.

To clarify some points: 48 IDTs + 72 AFTPs max per year = 120 drills. The 132 number you're coming up with is probably the 60 drill days (120/2) plus the minimum 12 days of AT, so 72 days worth of money out there. ADSW is something very different, it was Active Duty for Special Work but it's now called ADOS or Active Duty for Operational Support - it's the orders you go on for a mob. Once your AT entitlement is up there's ADT or Active Duty for Training, and there's also ADT Schools for things like swim/phys, FRS syllabi, etc.

To check that your anniversary date is correct, go into BOL and check your ARPR/ASOSH. You'll see how they do the math to get your 365 (366 in a leap year) points and what year was a "good" year. For your last year of active duty, if you're a June 7 commission date, and got out on 1 February, the 2 Feb - 6 June portion of the year will be your "good year" as long as you got the minimum number of prorated points.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Aha, thanks Slick. I think I meant to say AFTP, but there are just so many acronyms Good point on the drill max, I didn't even realize that number included your annual AT. Not great news for my drill gameplan, but I was on orders for a good part of this year so I too am just getting used to regular drilling. After reading Treetop's reference, it appears that if you are USNA or ROTC, it is commissioning date period dot (regardless of when in your career you got "out") , unless you had a break in service. Is this a correct interpretation?

 

[SlickAg]

Aha, thanks Slick. I think I meant to say AFTP, but there are just so many acronyms Good point on the drill max, I didn't even realize that number included your annual AT. Not great news for my drill gameplan, but I was on orders for a good part of this year so I too am just getting used to regular drilling. After reading Treetop's reference, it appears that if you are USNA or ROTC, it is commissioning date period dot (regardless of when in your career you got "out") , unless you had a break in service. Is this a correct interpretation?

That is correct, as long as you were not prior service.

132 isn’t actually a pertinent number for anything.

48 IDTs
72 AFTPs (that’s the max entitlement per year, can be less depending on how many your unit has. For example, in our SAU most guys can drill out and get 72 per year if they desire since we have so many guys take orders.)
12-29 days of AT. Anything greater than 14 is Exceptional AT or E-AT which has been granted basically across the board in CNAFR for FY21.

On top of this you can get unpaid drills and RMP drills, which are paid drills, for admin and paperwork type stuff depending on your unit’s policies.

It’s super confusing at first but once you’ve been around a while and seen enough things get screwed up you’ll get the gist. I took an interest in it after seeing some of my stuff get messed up (orders having the wrong dates in my ARPR, etc) that I got smart on it and eventually gave a little presentation to our unit at a mando about some record-keeping stuff. Strongly second that no one cares about this stuff as much as you do, so much like knowing your company’s contract, it behooves one to get smart on it.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

That is correct, as long as you were not prior service.

132 isn’t actually a pertinent number for anything.

48 IDTs
72 AFTPs (that’s the max entitlement per year, can be less depending on how many your unit has. For example, in our SAU most guys can drill out and get 72 per year if they desire since we have so many guys take orders.)
12-29 days of AT. Anything greater than 14 is Exceptional AT or E-AT which has been granted basically across the board in CNAFR for FY21.

On top of this you can get unpaid drills and RMP drills, which are paid drills, for admin and paperwork type stuff depending on your unit’s policies.

It’s super confusing at first but once you’ve been around a while and seen enough things get screwed up you’ll get the gist. I took an interest in it after seeing some of my stuff get messed up (orders having the wrong dates in my ARPR, etc) that I got smart on it and eventually gave a little presentation to our unit at a mando about some record-keeping stuff. Strongly second that no one cares about this stuff as much as you do, so much like knowing your company’s contract, it behooves one to get smart on it.

Adding ATP’s or RMP’s on top of the 72 AFTP’s can only get you to 84 total though, with a waiver from SECNAV you can get to 96 according to the USMC pub

 

[MIDNJAC]

"132" or I guess really 120 is pertinent since that is the most I can theoretically get paid for before taking active orders for less pay. But I get what you are saying. As you mention, maxing out AFTP (or other non-IDT/Add drills) hasn't been an issue for anyone I have seen this FY year or last, nor has money been in general. I did 139 consecutive days on orders and there was no sentiment that I couldn't go on another set of them if it had been needed. Though I guess 140 day or greater orders trip some sort of an administrative milestone that they didn't want to cross? Didn't matter, started civvie job a couple weeks later so it all worked out.