My Natops is smaller than your Natops...

[Brett327]

I was sitting in on FE night school last week and the civilian instructor asks me what the pressure is in the pressurized sump of the prop pump housing...no shit. I ask him if it has a gauge or if we can change it from the flight station.....and promptly dumped whatever number he had his FE students regurgitate...

I think this is one of the larger problems in the P-3 training pipeline, ot just for Pilots but for the rest of the tube as well. I don't give a fuck if the rack overheats at 135 degrees or the regulator valve on the prop is set to 300 psi (or whatever number it is)...

I want to learn (and my FE to learn) what directly affects me/the plane, can be monitored and/or changed, and is so important I can't take the 45 seconds to look it up in NATOPS. RPM limits? All day baby, shredding an engine is bad. Oil pressures/temps? No problem, oil is kind of important to that spinny/burny thing out on my wing. But don't make the FE's worry about one more stupid number that they cannot monitor or change. That just makes them dump one more USEFUL bit of knowledge out the other ear.

I remember having to memorize the diameter of the parachute and how fast you descend in FPS - ridiculous. I heard someone say that the amount of BS memory items required in any platform is inversely proportional to that platform's proximity to actual strike/battle conditions. Sounds like the Hornet/Rhino communities have a totally different approach to NATOPS and that kind of thing. Prowlers are probably somewhere in the middle.

Brett

 

[AJTranny]

Yeah, rhino NATOPS actually had a blurb in the beginning that said something to the affect that it was purposely shortened and simplified so aircrew would actually stay engaged with it. Good thing too. There are so many flux capacitors you really don't have a choice but to say "I believe." Very general systems knowledge was all that was expected in he fleet with a little more emphasis on the hyds. for ep scenarios. At it's young age, they do an awesome job taking care of us but I suspect she'll develop her quirks with age.

 

[AJTranny]

from NATOPS:
1. Only values (pressures, temps, quantity) that can be read in the cockpit are stated. Only information required to fly the plane is provided.
2. NWC's are kept at an absolute minimum since everything in the manual could be considered a NWC.
My personal fave as a general studies major:
Simple words will be used in preference to more complex, or quasi-technical words

God bless 'em

 

[Uncle Fester]

Tell ya for damn sure that ain't true in the mighty Hummer. Part of the community's over-emphasis on systems stuff if a holdover from BITD when just getting the weapon system to work reliably in flight really did require Alpha Geek knowledge of all the magic boxes. That time is long gone, but the dorkiness remains.

I suspect that maybe true of the P-3 as well, seeing as they're similar vintage and technology.

Plus, I've found that the guys who really get into the nitnoid systems stuff - I mean, bullshit like the diameter of the parachute or some pressure or voltage you can't monitor or influence in any way - use it as compensation for being shitty controllers/pilots. What the fuck's the point of knowing the candlepower of the FEC lighting if you've got a chronic case of dickmouth on the radio?

 

[zab1001]

What the fuck's the point of knowing the candlepower of the FEC lighting if you've got a chronic case of dickmouth on the radio?

did you make that up, or is it an actual piece of "knowledges" in the hummer world?

 

[AJTranny]

Well, we have plenty of tactics to geek out on which keeps us busy. I don't think I coulda done the E2 thing with all the systems piled on to tactical comms/controlling studies. Plus, the aforementioned dickmouth tendency that sometimes ensues. You
can actually hear the newbies' head explode when lead group does the exploding cantelope. Of course so does mine.

 

[Brett327]

Well, we have plenty of tactics to geek out on which keeps us busy.

How about learning to do your own HARM planning? That would be a novelty, now wouldn't it?

Brett

 

[AJTranny]

You don't want a rhino guy planning HARM. Saw it once during SFARP. Not a pretty sight. Even our HARM U grad just looked at the computer screen like my dog when I put him on the phone. In fairness, we get very little practice. We do appreciate the help though. I always wished we had more integration with you guys to get some concept as to how you keep the little smokies away from us. Normally the "trons are notional" on our syllabus hops.

 

[Brett327]

You don't want a rhino guy planning HARM. Saw it once during SFARP. Not a pretty sight. Even our HARM U grad just looked at the computer screen like my dog when I put him on the phone. In fairness, we get very little practice. We do appreciate the help though. I always wished we had more integration with you guys to get some concept as to how you keep the little smokies away from us. Normally the "trons are notional" on our syllabus hops.

Sounds about right. I suspect that as the G is integrated, things will become easier for both communities, since we'll be using the same button-pushing and JMPS machines.

Aaaaand we've completely hijacked the prop weenies' thread - standard.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

How about learning to do your own HARM planning? That would be a novelty, now wouldn't it?

Brett

Continuing the 'jack' (sorry VP'ers) ... that's funny; you guys actually have 'planning' (and go to school ?) for HARM ... ??

The first time I shot a SHRIKE -- I found out about it the night before -- literally 'read the book' the night before .... and the same for the 'STARM. Except I'd read THAT book a couple of days early. Definitely self-study ...

HARM U ??? Progress ... love it.

 

[AJTranny]

Yeah JMPS is pretty nice once you've taken your licks. Oops, sorry for the jack guys. Back to our half naked volleyball matches.

 

[eddie]

Aaaaand we've completely hijacked the prop weenies' thread - standard.

Their jet thread...

 

[Uncle Fester]

did you make that up, or is it an actual piece of "knowledges" in the hummer world?

There's a little annotation by the CIC illumination lights that says "XX-fc" and indicates the intensity in foot-candles of the lights. Is it something you're required to know? No. Is it something I've been asked by a smug systems weenie? Ooooh yes indeed.

Where do we get such men? :icon_tong

You could rip out half of our NATOPS and no one would ever miss it.

 

[Brett327]

Their jet thread...

They are all still prop weenies - always will be.

Brett

 

[Goober]

There's a little annotation by the CIC illumination lights that says "XX-fc" and indicates the intensity in foot-candles of the lights. Is it something you're required to know? No. Is it something I've been asked by a smug systems weenie? Ooooh yes indeed.

Where do we get such men? :icon_tong

You could rip out half of our NATOPS and no one would ever miss it.

Let me find someone doing that at the schoolhouse now. I'll bitch slap them with great vengeance and furious anger. You would be greatly pleased at the revisions to the syllabus that we're making. We're making great strides to remove the trivia and "shit I can't affect" items. We're making operators, not technicians. Death to R-Dot Bypass...

Brett gets random vectors for recovery on the next HCA.