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Military Spouses

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snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
actually cate, i do know.

and i know what it's like to not be able to make ends meet; and i know what it's like to miss the love of your life, not hear from them, and not know where they are, much less how they are; i know what it's like to be alone, for much longer than 6 months at a time; i know what it's like to single-handedly hold an entire family together; and i sat with my best friend's wife, once, every night for the 6 months he was gone, but here's the thing:

there are so many military wives that go out and just plain feel sorry for themselves, and b!tch about the lives that they have. when your husband, (the general 'you'), since we're talking about wives here, is gone, only YOU can make the most of your life. it's relative, and it's what you make of it.

my aunt lived alone, in tehran, with a young child, for several years-- in an extremely turbulent time-- somehow, i think that was harder than trying to find a job, and 'wasting' an advanced degree. in fact, my cousin and his wife actually divorced because she wanted to join the military, and he didn't want the lifestyle. my other cousin, however, is in, and is having a great time. i'm sure she'll be on this site soon, since she'll be headed to flight school. the point is-- it's a choice you make, and a sacrifice you make for being with the person you love-- who clearly can't make those kind of sacrifices on their end. and again, it's all relative, but do i feel bad for military wives? no. and neither does my military family. does that mean that think it's an easy life? no.
in fact, i know it's not. but there are much worse things. and it's much harder, financiall speaking, being the wife of an enlisted man, or a deployed reservist, than an officer. that's just how the breaks are.

take diplomats and their families, for example:

they constantly go to places where military spouses and families are not allowed, and if you'll recall the church bombing in afghanistan, that's a pretty good argument for not letting families go. but they do: korea, everywhere in the middle east, except iraq at the moment, indonesia... but just because they get to go, doesn't mean that life is easier for them than it is for military wives.

there was a diplomat, in a foreign country, who had to assist in performing an emergency, life-threatening surgery on her infant, working with a doctor whose languge she was barely familiar with, much less medically familiar with-- on her kitchen table-- but no one knows that story, because she did what she had to do, and that was that.

a wife of a diplomat i know told me about how she was evacuated from indonesia three times in one year, and her husband had to stay behind. she didn't go to america-- she went to the nearest allied country that would offer her emergency diplomatic immunity. she was telling the story, but she did it because i asked-- not because her life was hard. you never hear about all of those family members either, and how hard it is to repeatedly evacuate your family, (in addition to the normal 4--6 year routine), and immediately travel to a completely foreign country, leaving literally everything behind, for an unknown period of time. i've never gotten a chain email about them....

i'd like to agree with you that military spouses have the toughest job in the world, but i can't. i've seen the military-- too many times in some cases-- help people, but in doing so, doesn't make them any more capable of doing things on their own. for all the 'we have to do it all' that people hear, no one ever mentions that the incredible support system that the military provides, not to mention the support you get from your co, xo, etc. the list of things you made-- everyone has to do those things, regardless of their occupation. it's called life. and if you'll note the very beginning of my post, i did mention the emotional stress of being deployed-- aside.

if the majority of military wives were as independent and capable as you're claiming, the military wouldn't need to offer to teach them how to balance their checkbooks. that shouldn't be a military problem, but unfortunately, it is. i know many, many wives who don't have to work-- and equal numbers of them are lazy as are not. i also know many who do have to work, but you know, they never complain about it. i'm not saying that it's not hard, but when people aren't willing to help themselves, no one else wants to help you either-- so maybe you should take your 'shut ups' to the whiney, lazy wives, who perpetuate the knives club and the westpac widows.

if you want to attack me personally, i'll pm you my phone number. if you want to talk to someone else about me, talk to psg1016-- she knows me personally.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
Not trying to attack you personally. I was trying (unsuccessfully, perhaps) to attack your argument, in particular the idea of "you chose this, suck it up" that you still appear to be trying to defend.

I never said that military spouses have the hardest job in the world. I don't have the bumper sticker. Or the t-shirt. Or the coffee mug. The chain e-mail that started this all didn't say that; it just said that military spouses have it tougher than other spouses, which is generally the truth. It was your basic have-you-hugged-a-military-spouse-today feelgood e-mail, to which you seemed to say, "Military spouses can't fix things and are bad with money! No hugs for them," and I felt compelled to respond. And if I came off as a little, ahem, emphatic, it's only because I was righteously ticked off at the time.

Oh, and sidenote - desert fox, I'm going to assume that by "wrench-toting Amazon" you're implying that I'm a smart, capable, independent (gorgeous) young woman, rather than a militant, man-hating North African warrior chick who cut off my own breast to improve my archery. Thanks, poodle, that's so sweet!
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
somehow, for some reason, i just think that a lot of military spouses have a really negative outlook on their lives-- in general. not relating to one specific thing or another, but probably everything in combination. is it hard to be a single parent? well, i don't know, but i assume that it is. that's why i help out my single parent friends, psg1016 included, and probably the most, whenever i can. is it hard to have your significant other gone for, what now are uncertain, but long stretches of time? yes. especially if you know that your s/o is on the ground in a place like iraq. makes an iwakuni deployment seem like a walk through a rose garden. does it suck when things go wrong in life? well, yeah, but that's for everyone.

but for whatever reason, so many fail to keep it in perspective, and fail to try to help themselves. leaning on people during hard times is something that everyone needs. but apathetic, lazy, whiney people......who want everything done for them, and lean constantly.... are you kidding me with that?

i still do, and will always believe that our lives are the results of the choices that we make, and the attitudes that we choose to take. i've known some absolutely amazing wives, and then there are others who probably shouldn't have been caring for a plant. if you marry into the military, and you don't know what you're getting into, that's your fault. it's also your spouse's fault, but mostly yours for not doing your research. you made the choice, and didn't do your research, didn't read, and didn't talk to people, but you think that others want to hear you complain, and then want to help you? think again. (and again, not you, personally.) sometimes, you do all you can, and you're still surprised by something-- that's understandable-- there are some things that you just can't plan for. most of it though, you can. these days there is a plethora of information out there, if people just get off their butts and go get it.

from what i hear, my aunt had a great time in spain, but an absolutely terrible time in iran-- there were no americans, no bases, no churches, no nothing for her and my, at the time, toddler cousin to relate to. they could rarely leave the house, of course had to follow islamic law, and had to be careful of what they said on the phone. (no email in those days.) of course, she didn't know farsi, and wasn't working, had problems with clean water, etc. my uncle was 'working' elsewhere in the country, and they lived in that neighborhood because of his training and education. oh, and because the navy told them to, which really makes everything else irrelevant. do i think it was fun? absolutely not. she was, save the ring on her hand, a single american mother in iran, during a time of extreme social unrest, and distrust of america and everything it stood for. and she complained, i'm sure, but she was also doing things that most women, including military wives today, would never dream of. times were different back then, and you could go more places with your spouse. of course, as i've previously mentioned, there are very good reasons for unaccompianed tours, and for families to not be near deployments.


bennett4362-- i love my degree, and am not using it at the moment, but i wouldn't trade it for anything. i'm sure it is frustrating to move to a place where your education can't be utilized in the way you want, it's frustrating that i'm not using mine right now, but that doesn't mean that the degree is 'wasted'. (and i know that you weren't the one who initially said that, but you did address the degree.) i don't feel that mine is, and it can be used from everything to diplomacy, geography, government-military related issues, to home-schooling children. that's called adaptability and flexibility, and i'm sure you know this. but your case is clearly different-- since the military came after your marriage. you decided to stick it out, even if that meant that your life was going to change, probably drastically. in my cousin's case, he couldn't do that, so they split. just the way it is. but military service is also not necessarily a forever thing. personally, i don't believe that an education is ever wasted, and believe that everyone who can, and is capable, should have a degree. it makes life a little easier when you have an education of some sort behind you.
 

shortncurly

Registered User
Not to beat a dead horse or anything.... I had really wanted to stay out of this thread, mostly because I've only been a "Navy Wife" for 10 months and hardly am experienced to say how it is or isn't or should be or shouldn't or what-the-heck-ever.

snow85 said:
if you marry into the military, and you don't know what you're getting into, that's your fault. it's also your spouse's fault, but mostly yours for not doing your research. you made the choice, and didn't do your research, didn't read, and didn't talk to people...

But I did want to address the above. You could read every "military spouses' manual" and memoir and newspaper column and talk to every military spouse you know -- and some you don't know -- and chances are you won't still be prepared what this life and lifestyle will be like. I did my "research" for the whole year I was engaged, and it still didn't prepare me for the situation I'm in -- and it won't prepare me for situations ahead (i.e., deployments, etc.). When you "marry into the military" you may THINK you know what you're getting into, but you don't. That's why we have support channels like this forum (the spouses forum, private and otherwise). For Pete's sake, it's a marriage, not a term paper.

I have several manuals in my possession to help me through things I might not have prepared for before I got married -- but NONE of them have been as useful to me as talking with my fellow girlfriends around here, and yes, complaining a bit sometimes. Venting helps; it really does. A hug and a sympathetic ear go much farther than the "Service Etiquette Guide" ever could. And if some people misinterpret that as "complaining," well then.... that's their issue.

"if the majority of military wives were as independent and capable as you're claiming, the military wouldn't need to offer to teach them how to balance their checkbooks. "

Have you ever noticed that they offer the same sort of things to the MEN, too? The Navy/Marine Corps. Relief Society offers classes on "financial responsibility" geared to ALL SERVICEMEMBERS and their spouses, if applicable. How can you slam wives for not knowing how to balance our checkbooks when their spouses are just the same?

I'm just glad not all guys on this site or in the military think the way some do. My husband says (to paraphrase) that the "wives should suck it up blah blah blah" mentality is bull#$%. Having that kind of mentality will not get you far in this line of work.

This whole thread started as just a cute little story.... and has now been blown out of proportion. Can't we all just agree to disagree?
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
KBayDog said:
KBayDog - Sowing the seeds of Hate and Discontent since 2004...
Or is it just because you were a former junior Marine enlisted --- and therefore like to mess with Navy "O's" minds --- come'on, you can tell us --- as I, also, (almost) was when I was flunking out of NROTC .... came this close:
elguerrouj_h0828.jpg
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
A4sForever said:
Or is it just because you were a former junior Marine enlisted --- and therefore like to mess with Navy "O's" minds --- come'on, you can tell us --- as I, also, (almost) was when I was flunking out of NROTC .... came this close:
elguerrouj_h0828.jpg

I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything...
 

Fred

Registered User
snow85 said:
somehow, for some reason, i just think that a lot of military spouses have a really negative outlook on their lives-- in general. not relating to one specific thing or another, but probably everything in combination.


Can I ask how long you have been associated with the military, and how many military wives you know? While I do know a handful who meet your description, they are by far in the minority.
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
associated: my entire life

# of wives: old and new-- too many to count. the majority of the ones i know, are not the people i'm talking about. a few are though, and they're more vocal than the ones who 'tough it out'.

shortncurly: i am by no means saying that talking to friends and others in the same situation doesn't help. i've been on both sides of that. if you read the beginning of what i wrote, you'd have seen that. the middle of what i wrote says that i know you can't plan for everything. you'd also have seen that if you're talking to people who have been where you are, you're probably going to be a lot better off than a lot of people.

yes, the classes are offered to everyone, but how many men v. women attend?

the people i'm talking about (again, sigh), are the ones who are lazy, whine, cry, and complain, and then expect people to want to help them, or feel for their situation.
 

Jenmarie

Demons are cute when they sleep!
Contributor
[/QUOTE]
the people i'm talking about (again, sigh), are the ones who are lazy, whine, cry, and complain, and then expect people to want to help them, or feel for their situation.[/QUOTE]


I've been reading this thread for the last several days. While I am new to married and military life, I do know that there are very few women on here that are lazy, whine, cry and complain while expecting others to fix their problems. No one has said in this thread, or anywhere else in the Spouses Corner that I have found, that being a wife is harder than being in the military. But, you have to admit, being a military wife does have it's hard days, and I think you should respect that. No amount of researching can prepare you for being completely alone, a thousand miles from your nearest family member or friend, while your husband (the reason you are so far away) is at work, deployed, etc.

Yes, this is the life I chose, not because of my great love for the military (Although you all are wonderful), but because of my love for my husband. He understands that this is hard on me, and he respects the fact that I'm not always going to be sunshine and cupcakes.

And, for the record, crying and complaining are helpful releases that allow me to get past whatever it is that is troubling me.

I will not speak for other women here, but I know that when I read your posts, I felt that you were looking down on the importance of the military wife, not respecting women in general and making very blanket, chauvinistic statements. I know there are many women that cannot hack this lifestyle, if it takes a little crying to get you through - then by gosh - cry...

I'm concerned that there are new Navy spouses that are going to come on here, see this thread and turn and run the other way screaming. This forum is supposed to be here to support the women (and men) that support you, not beat them down.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
Okay, yes, there are military wives who whine and cry (and some husbands, too). And yes, there are some military wives who can't balance a checkbook or change a tire (and some husbands, too). And yes, single mothers and diplomats' wives and astronauts' wives and firefighters' wives all have it super-duper tough.

But honestly, what is accomplished by looking in the eye of all of the military spouses on this board and saying, "Even though most of you aren't whiny or irresponsible, some of you are, so I'm not giving any of you any credit"? Why not just give them the pat on the back that they richly deserve and rest comfortably in the knowledge that yeah, you're right, some military spouses can't be trusted with a credit card?
 

bennett4362

deployment sucks
snow, if your aunt never complained about the situation she was in, then she is not human. being lazy, crying, whining, all of these are part of being human. and, spouses of all kinds, including military, are only human.

there were lots of days, when i was just a "wife," that i was lazy. i would come home from work and not want to cook dinner, or clean the house, or empty the kitty liter (we don't have kids yet :)). and there were days when i would wake up and just cry and cry (no pms interference, either). and there were days when i would do all the things i needed to do, but i sure whined about it.

when my husband joined the military and i became a military spouse, what do you know? those things didn't go away! the only difference is now i seem to have an actual reason to do them :) i can whine because i can't find a job here; i can cry because i just moved away from all my friends; i can feel lazy because i spent days unpacking boxes and putting away belongings. and most days i feel fine. even optomistic on a few :)

you mentioned that hardships are part of life. yes they are. and while they may be "random" in ordinary life, they are almost predictable in military life.

i felt almost exactly as jenmarie stated, that you were looking down on the importance of the military wife, not respecting women in general. and, that you were belittling the task that we navy wives have before us. there are many military men who could not do what they do without the support of their wives.

i respect your right to your opinions, but i feel you are disrespectful by posting them so adamently when no one in this forum has behaved in any of the manners in which you characterize military wives.
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
jenmarie, cate, bennett4362--

1. i never said that i was talking about the wives on this forum. and if i was, i would pm those people/that person individually.

2. 'i should respect that military wives have hard days'???? how do you know that i don't? have you searched my name, and read anything else that i've posted on this board? have you actually come straight out and asked me what i think, what i would do in X situation?

3. i'm not talking about hard days. i'm not talking about crying, and just sitting down and taking a break from the stress. (that's a female thing, and sometimes a male thing, and i don't know a single female who doesn't do that every once in a while.) i'm talking about the people who have a chronic issue with this. people who don't accept the support offered to them, who refuse to have their own lives, and therefore are bored/unhappy, etc. i'm talking about the ones who perpetuate the stereotypes-- typologies that would not exist without the behavior in the first place. many a military marriage has dissolved because the 'trailing spouse' couldn't, as you say, 'hack it'. does that make the divorce the fault of the military? of the military spouse? of the other spouse? and cate's right-- some people can't be trusted with a credit card. deployed personnel don't come home to debt becuase they spent their us$ on flea spray and sand repellent. but if you know you have a spending issue, and your spouse isn't there to ensure that you use credit wisely, isn't it your reponsibility to control your own behavior? (especially considering the effect that certain behaviors can have on the career of your spouse?) why blame someone or something else?

4. bennett4362-- yes, my aunt did complain, a lot,-- because she lived in iran, where she couldn't do anything because she was a woman. oh, and she is american. which made her an american woman. and even though she 'technically was married to, and lived with my uncle', he was gone, up in the mountains for months at a time-- so she went through everything a stateside military wife goes through with a deployment, plus some very difficult, very unique hardships. she got sympathy where it was deserved, and likewise, got told to suck it up, where deserved.

5. harships are not random in life. it doesn't matter what kind of life you're leading, sometimes, it's going to get hard. in that respect, at times, the military has it a lot better off, because there is a plethora of support systems and shelters in place to help families when they need it. you know, come to think of it,.... i've never seen anyone write about the benefits they get from the military, and how very much needed and helpful they are. think of the life of a military wife of a husband deployed to iraq, classes, functions, allowances to help with bills, rent, etc included, compared to the life of the wife of a KBR employee who has been sent to iraq. very different homefront scenarios, and in that situation, who wouldn't take military life?

5. sure, there are men who couldn't do without the support of their wives. and then, there are the ones who don't want to get married, while in the military because of what they've seen. there are men who would just continue on, and have, should their marriages fall apart. there are also many wives who would be up a creek without their husbands, and when their husbands are deployed, actually start looking for paddles. but the wives who have the most trouble, and spend the least amount of time trying to help themselves are the ones who cry the loudest. the familial responsibilites of a mother and a wife are constant, the same, no matter what happens surrounding them. there are countless women who use deployments as ways to shirk those reponsibilities, and that drives me nuts. people are quick to hold their hands, but rarely does anyone hold them accountable.

6. devoting your life to our government, to publice service, (military, astronauts, law enforcement, etc), requires a huge sacrifice. (that's why they call it 'devoting', and 'sacrifice'.) but the thing about a sacrifice is that you don't get to pick and choose to which parts you are willing to acquiesce. it's a sacrifice in totality.
 
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