Gravity is stronger at lower altitudes so it at least explains why helo bubbas have biggercranksasses.
FIFY.
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Mental decline in high-flying military pilots
- Thread starter Navy Ship
- Start date
FIFY.
On the nerd side and possibly related, when I interned at NASA some years ago, they checked out an old Pentium laptop to me (I think 75Mhz) to do my work. I asked why so much crazy talk about this "special" laptop that was antiquated. They told me that there is enough stray radiation and that the dies have been shrunk so much on newer chipsets that the trons will bridge the gap and switch 1's and 0's around...That same radiation may be making the mental 1's and 0's a little jacked up too.
On the other side, I think we can all agree that in our own minds we are each the smartest, biggest, bestest everything in aviation and the line always starts behind us. I mean really, if you walk in to ANY ready room and ask who is in the bottom half, nobody will raise their hand, but if you ask who is in the top half, I bet you get at least 80% reply...People give me shit at work when I say only half of us can be in the top 50%!
On the other side, I think we can all agree that in our own minds we are each the smartest, biggest, bestest everything in aviation and the line always starts behind us. I mean really, if you walk in to ANY ready room and ask who is in the bottom half, nobody will raise their hand, but if you ask who is in the top half, I bet you get at least 80% reply...People give me shit at work when I say only half of us can be in the top 50%!
danpass
Well-Known Member
don't helo guys get nosebleeds at higher altitude? hence their avoidance of it?
joke told to me by a fighter jet guy
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Thanks for the information BzB. I have a few comments and questions.Will probably take much more research, but it appears to be a problem mainly for the "high flyers", the U-2 & (now retired) SR-71 or future SR-72.. I believe most military tactical high flyers operate at or below the magic 18k cabin altitude. In addition, unlike long range U-2s, most tactical jets average 2.0 hrs or less per mission.
Additionally, during events of explosive decompression or pressurization failure, normal emergency procedures dictate immediate descent to lower [safe] altitudes, so exposure to the high danger altitudes is minimized. I recall that in my community (A-4s), at 35k the cabin altitude was ~18k and we seldom operated above 25 k except on X/C or ferry flights. Not sure about the fighter dudes though, they probably spend much more time closer to heaven. This allows them to lead much more "sin free" lives, while accounting for their marked intelligence deficit!
BzB
1) I'm sure you already know this but the SR-72 is unmanned
2) I'm not a pilot so I wouldn't know for sure. But I've read elsewhere that recent mission require pilot to be up in the air for 6 - 8 and sometimes even more hours at a time. This apparently is another concern for pilots.
Here's my question:
1) Why are fighter cabins only pressurized at 18k altitude? Does it have anything to with with safety during ejection?
I'm not sure either. But just an interesting fact. Other studies found similar concerns with divers, who also experience rapid compression / decompression on a regular basis.
I just find it less interesting, I guess. "Going up = BAD; going down also = BAD"?
I guess "couch potatoes" have it about right? I think that's been their [inert] position all along…
Didn't know that.. my bad. I only saw a recent headline about it replacing the Blackbird, haven't had a chance to bone up yet.Thanks for the information BzB. I have a few comments and questions.
1) I'm sure you already know this but the SR-72 is unmanned
That may be, but I believe that would be a very small percentage of total jet flight hours. Also, the ones that do log those 6-8+ flights, will have cockpit altitudes well below the 'vulnerable' zones.
To my knowledge, the only effects re: ejection are: reduced explosive decompression upon high alt. ejection; and the higher than ambient outside pressure in the cockpit at ejection initiation helps blow the canopy (clamshell) well clear.
*Jet cabins are not only pressurized at 18k altitude. Cabin altitude is a ratio of approx. 2-1 (actual to cabin). The ratio may vary slightly at different altitudes, and aircraft model. Each aircraft model will have a pub with a graph showing cabin v actual at any altitude.
Cabin pressurization also greatly reduces the effect of explosive decompression.
Caveat... this info applies to my era, current aircraft models may vary!
SometimesI
In the case of aircraft... agree.
But everytime an aircraft goes up, it's guaranteed to come down; every time a submarine goes down,, no such guarantee.
Except for our monthly strikes on the commissary, clogging the aisles and pissing off JOPA/hinges, it accurately describes most of us elder retirees!I guess "couch potatoes" have it about right? I think that's been their [inert] position all along…
BzB
LFCFan
*Insert nerd wings here*
Hey, I used to be one of those Egg-heads! Neurology is a good journal though.
White matter lesions are not a good thing. They are the precursor to MS, Alzheimer's, and some other nasty diseases. You also see them a lot more in older concussed football players. Even pro soccer players get them a lot more from repeated headers.
But seeing as they are more of a byproduct of bad things vice the cause (and are considered a natural part of aging), this study may not be too alarming. You'd have to look at neuropsych batteries as well as a study of dementia later in life for U-2 pilots before we should really start to be alarmed. A better version of the study would have compared them to other USAF pilots that had no U-2 time.
One thing that the abstract of the article mentioned was that the lesions were more uniformly distributed throughout the brain in the U-2 guys than in the controls, suggesting that the frontal lobe is not being hit harder than the rest of the brain. This is possibly a good thing, as it might suggest that the pattern seen in U-2 pilots doesn't match up with any particular disease.
Color me "convinced".
But seriously, what's with the control group (ground pounders}, and why weren't astronauts, many of whom have spent 180+ days in the ISS tested? I daresay partial pressures count there as well.
Really? Tell them Huggy says hi.
No future there. Nothing about the math works for this airplane as a Recce platform.
As someone who has spent a good portion of his flying career encapsulated in a full pressure suit,... let me assure that "cockpit pressure" is a major issue. In fact, all of your suppositions are completely wrong.
This could have merit. We've already shown a correlation that the U-2's high altitude is affected by the moon's gravitational pull, having a similar effect on our appendages.
This^.
U-2 pilots are considered "radiation workers".
No.
In a nutshell... yes.
They found the control group to have much in common with U-2 pilots. It was well thought out,... not some random idea on who to choose.
You wouldn't want astronauts, since many of them might have a great deal of flying, which could skew the data.
I was one of the MRI test subjects. Despite having flown the U-2 for longer than just about any of the test subjects, my MRI's were very "clean". Surprisingly so.
Dr McGuire is really the first person to really delve thoroughly into this part of human physiology. I hope he is able to discover something new.
Fortunately, the MRI proved to my wife that my brain is not actually located between my legs.
FYI: the U-2 single-seat fleet (minus the two NASA jets) just completed a cockpit pressurization mod this past July All U-2S aircraft now have a cabin altitude of 14,700' (instead of 29,000') when at FL700. Physiologists predict that decompression sickness (DCS) will be a thing of the past in the U-2.
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Informative and interesting post.....
BzB
.... and funny too!
BzB
It's more of a "never fly higher than you're willing to fall" issue.
I was told there would be no math here....
Since the moon's gravity is one-sixth that of Earth, does that mean a U-2 pilot's "appendage" is one-sixth of a helo pilot's?????
Great, informative post. Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong and won't be the last. Thanks for the first-hand info…and apparently for having had skin in the game.
All that said…is there a "so what" at the end of the research tunnel? Future aircraft/space vehicle crew capsule designs/constraints/requirements? Or is this just an automatic 50% medical disability upon separation from one of the affected communities? Not that there's anything wrong with that.