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MCMAP Mandatory Training Mega Thread
- Thread starter PropStop
- Start date
Riper Snifle
OCC 194 TBS C 03-07
In answer to your question- marine aviators are required to become gray belts. Student Naval Aviators are exempt from getting their qualification while they are in training, just like rifle and pistol qualification. You will, however need to get your gray belt when you are done training, and possibly in between training times when you are in the pool. I hope that helps. 
Riper Snifle said:In answer to your question- marine aviators are required to become gray belts. Student Naval Aviators are exempt from getting their qualification while they are in training, just like rifle and pistol qualification. You will, however need to get your gray belt when you are done training, and possibly in between training times when you are in the pool. I hope that helps.
We haven't heard that yet. And I don't think it would be a good idea, unless the Commandant wants a bunch of broken ass aviators not flying his airplanes. It's understandable if the MATSGs want to require it for Lieutenants fresh out of TBS. But, if they push that initiative to the fleet there's going to be a lot of gentlemen's grey belt courses being run around the wing. I'll probably do my grey belt training during the same five minutes I run the "combat fitness test."
Well, shit. Scrap the program. Somebody got hurt.
Of course there are going to be some injuries. Some guys just really get into it and end up screwing up their partner. But to act like the fleet's going to suffer because aviators are required to be gray belt? Not buying it.
Of course there are going to be some injuries. Some guys just really get into it and end up screwing up their partner. But to act like the fleet's going to suffer because aviators are required to be gray belt? Not buying it.
Crowbar said:
The MCMAP program, like every other Marine Corps program, was designed for the infantry. The average Captain or Major in the air wing cannot compete physically with their counterpart across the river. I'm not saying the program should be scrapped. I just want nobody to flip their shit when the program is abbreviated for the sake of preserving our forces.
For example, if an infantry company commander is injured while receiving a brutal vertical hammer fist blow to the collar bone, no big deal. The same can be said of nearly any non-pilot MOS. That single incident will not affect that infantry company's readiness or training at all. If a new V-22 squadron loses one of its three NSI's for a similar or lesser injury, the effects will be felt for months to follow.
I respect your idealist perspective on the MCMAP program. The aviation community needs that to an extent. But, in most instances, the cost-benefit analysis does not support the practice of irreplaceable aviators beating on each other for a week straight in an effort to receive the next color ninja belt.
^Good post, except for the idealist business. Regardless of MOS, we're all Marines. If you can make it through boot camp/OCS you can take being roughed up a little here and there. Some people enjoy that. Some people need it. I'll admit, at first I wasn't a big fan of the program, but I ended up being in the testbed class when it was introduced to our squadron and since then I've supported it.
It was pointed out by somebody on this that it wasn't that long ago that a CNO died in office and the Navy continued to function. If you lose one person due to a MCMAP injury, it might make things a little harder but the squadron won't shut down. Ops might appear to implode but the squadron will go on.
Like I said originally, we're talking about gray belt training. Nothing violent. Unless a squadron decides to send every aircrew they have to MCMAP all at the same time and every one of them gets mysteriously hurt, I don't see the fleet coming to a screeching halt. Let's be honest here. How many people just simply don't want to go stand out in the sun and get tossed around for a few days? For most people who resist, it has nothing to do with getting hurt.
It was pointed out by somebody on this that it wasn't that long ago that a CNO died in office and the Navy continued to function. If you lose one person due to a MCMAP injury, it might make things a little harder but the squadron won't shut down. Ops might appear to implode but the squadron will go on.
Like I said originally, we're talking about gray belt training. Nothing violent. Unless a squadron decides to send every aircrew they have to MCMAP all at the same time and every one of them gets mysteriously hurt, I don't see the fleet coming to a screeching halt. Let's be honest here. How many people just simply don't want to go stand out in the sun and get tossed around for a few days? For most people who resist, it has nothing to do with getting hurt.
As has been pointed out, it's freakin' grey belt training! We're not talking about putting people through the MAIT program where Col. Shusko personally beats the living shit out of you (That guy is freakin' hard, BTW). Sure, there's the risk of people getting concussions and injuring ACLs, but that's just a reality of any physical training. The question of pilots NEEDING a grey belt comes probably to two things that I can think of. First is the warrior mindset. It may be a punchline for some people around here, but good groundfighting is a way to breed the seriously aggressive mindset that every Marine should have. Second, and I'm getting this directly out of Col. Shusko's mouth, your belt level is now going to be a distractor item on your Fitrep. So if you're a Captain and you still have just a tan belt, all things being equal, you're kinda behind the rest of the Marine Corps as far as the board can see.
I personally do not look forward to any MCMAP training, but I plan to be a grey belt(whipped on by The MACE, so I know it wasn't a gentlemens course) before I leave The BS.
I personally do not look forward to any MCMAP training, but I plan to be a grey belt(whipped on by The MACE, so I know it wasn't a gentlemens course) before I leave The BS.
Col Angus said:
That is unfortunate. Theres no reason that someone in the air wing shouldn't possess the same physical prowess that someone who is not in the air wing possesses. That attitude and reality is why I constantly receive crap from all the ground guys. Every Marine Officer should take responsibility for their own physical development - You shouldn't be excused because you have the best job. :icon_wink
To get back on point, as has been echoed a number of times thus far, its only gray belt training. I picked mine up training with a green belt instructor Saturday mornings in my TBS platoon a couple of months ago. Sure, you might get a few bruises, tough. Suck it up. In my opinion everyone should be required to be have a green belt.
I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on the internet. But I'll at least try.
You're both 2ndLt's fresh out of TBS in presumably great shape. Congratulations! You have no idea what a fleet squadron is like. Training that causes "a few bruises" on one of your counterparts has a higher probability of seriously breaking one of mine. I've seen it.
You speak of injuries and "the risk of people getting concussions and injuring ACLs" like it's nothing. Sure, if a 2ndLt tears an ACL, it's not going to affect anyone except that 2ndLt. If a single pilot in a squadron has a similar injury it will affect the entire squadron to some extent. In my community, if a major player with all the quals is injured (generally a pilot who is older and further removed from the TBS fairytale world of daily PT, MCMAP, and sand table exercises), everyone in the community will be affected. If that squadron is working up or about to deploy, it's now jumping through it's ass to find or make a qualified replacement when the focus should be elsewhere.
This is a good discussion, but you're both a little outside your lane. TBS is good at showing the ideal side of the Marine Corps, where everyone is a rifle platoon commander and less than a 275 PFT is considered bad. That is your world. It is all you know. The reality is there are many more variables in the aviation community than you're considering when you formulate your arguments.
You're both 2ndLt's fresh out of TBS in presumably great shape. Congratulations! You have no idea what a fleet squadron is like. Training that causes "a few bruises" on one of your counterparts has a higher probability of seriously breaking one of mine. I've seen it.
You speak of injuries and "the risk of people getting concussions and injuring ACLs" like it's nothing. Sure, if a 2ndLt tears an ACL, it's not going to affect anyone except that 2ndLt. If a single pilot in a squadron has a similar injury it will affect the entire squadron to some extent. In my community, if a major player with all the quals is injured (generally a pilot who is older and further removed from the TBS fairytale world of daily PT, MCMAP, and sand table exercises), everyone in the community will be affected. If that squadron is working up or about to deploy, it's now jumping through it's ass to find or make a qualified replacement when the focus should be elsewhere.
This is a good discussion, but you're both a little outside your lane. TBS is good at showing the ideal side of the Marine Corps, where everyone is a rifle platoon commander and less than a 275 PFT is considered bad. That is your world. It is all you know. The reality is there are many more variables in the aviation community than you're considering when you formulate your arguments.
Good discussion. Coincidentally, the powers that be are starting a MAI course this coming week in Camp Funtime. Everyone who wants can advance a belt and become an instructor for that level. I'm excited about the prospect, but it is going to be a beatdown. I'm not worried about getting seriously hurt, but if I do, I have plenty of time til I see a cockpit anyway. This is a great opportunity, especially for officers since most can't take the time to go to a three week course to get their instructor tab.
I think all Marines should strive to advance in MCMAP even with the threat of injuries. It gets us back to more primitive fighting....away from LGBs and NVGs. It gets us outside being physical, not staring at a computer screen. And it reminds us of what our job comes down to.....
I think all Marines should strive to advance in MCMAP even with the threat of injuries. It gets us back to more primitive fighting....away from LGBs and NVGs. It gets us outside being physical, not staring at a computer screen. And it reminds us of what our job comes down to.....