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Mast, NJP, and The Trouble Troops Can Get In...

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
As usual, I'm the guy that can point out there's an exception to every rule. On my last deployment on Active Duty, I was the only pilot in the battalion that DIDN'T get NJP'd. One guy got a NPLOC, the other guy got a Punitive Letter of Reprimand. Both of them were Captains, and they've both been promoted to Major.

Getting a NPLOC at an NJP kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

Who NJP'd them? The Battalion Commander? Was it official, or some kind of scare tactic? That's a very strange scenario. Must be a hell of a story behind it.

I knew a guy many years ago that got NJP'd as a Captain and still made Major, but as pilots at the time (back in the day) that was somewhat less surprising than it would be now.

Suffice to say that even back then he never went any farther than that, though.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Getting a NPLOC at an NJP kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

Who NJP'd them? The Battalion Commander? Was it official, or some kind of scare tactic?
To answer your questions, yeah the NPLOC was kind of pointless, and for outsiders looking in the wrong guy got the LOR. They were NJP'd by the MEU CO, and it was most definitely official. The guy that got the LOR was in zone for Maj the next board, and his squadron put him through the ringer to help him get past it (he got back to the squadron and was immediately working towards LATI, ACTI, TOPGUN and WTI). He was actually selected by the board, but because he had adverse content it had to be approved by the Commandant. Commandant's response? No dice. But come back with a selection and as strong of a package next year, and I'll say yes. The Commandant turned out to be a man of his word.

Best part is that the MEU CO got promoted to BGen, and then got busted for banging a Cpl.
Must be a hell of a story behind it.
One could only wish... It's actually pretty benign and the dude who got the LOR was NJP'd for assault on a commissioned officer, based SOLELY on the word of the dude who got the NPLOC. Most of us have the theory that what the NPLOC guy said never happened, and when push came to shove he was trying to save his own ass (since he was violating the MEU libbo buddy policy).
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
That makes sense, if it was the MEU CO deployed. Nobody else left to do it, I suppose.

I didn't know that the Commandant could override a Title X board. Makes sense, which is why I can't believe it's true.

I take it there was a drunken brawl on a liberty port and they broke the cardinal rule of the MEU: don't get caught?

What was the punishment for the former MEU CO? Just retire? I hope the corporal was worth it. I've never seen one that was.
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
I didn't know that the Commandant could override a Title X board. Makes sense, which is why I can't believe it's true.

I take it there was a drunken brawl on a liberty port and they broke the cardinal rule of the MEU: don't get caught?

What was the punishment for the former MEU CO? Just retire? I hope the corporal was worth it. I've never seen one that was.
Yeah, I was kind of surprised about the selection board as well. I guess that's why it has to go through all the chains before it gets signed off...

I'll tell the full story, and I think you'll agree it's a pretty laim story. In order to protect identities - I won't use callsigns other than NPLOC and LOR. On the way home from deployment, first port call after we got back to the Med, Civitivecchia, Italy. NPLOC and LOR went out into town as libbo buddies (as they had for all other previous ports). Go shopping, eating, drinking. NPLOC ends up coming back to the ship (drunk), sans LOR and is asked where LOR is. His response? "He hit me, so I came back." I wake up to the H&S Company Commander beating on our door asking where NPLOC is - point to his rack, and he rips open the curtain and starts ripping him apart asking "where is LOR?" LOR didn't return to the ship until 11 am the next day, with a black eye, a cut over the other eye and night stick welts all over his body.

So after their "fight", LOR starts working his way back to the ship, encounters a big fight between Sailors and Marines and steps in to try and break it up so everyone can make it back to the ship. Too late - Carbioneri arrive and round up the whole group. LOR is cooperative, and statements from Marines and Sailors was that he went back to the interview/interrogation under his own power, was cooperative and quiet. They saw him being carried out on a stretcher, and LOR woke up in the hospital. NCIS came and picked him up and brought him back to the ship. On the way back they told him he just had bad luck - that of the 3 police stations in Civitivecchia, 2 would have cuffed and stuffed and brought him back to the ship. The third likes to beat on Sailors and Marines.

After all this happens, me and my libbo buddies go on a little fact-finding mission and find the bar that the two of them started in. The bartender said that they didn't get in a physical fight, just a shouting match and one dude packed his stuff up and left. That kind of jives with the fact that LOR was a triathelete, 6'4"/250 or so and probably was around 8-10% BF. If he hits you, it will leave a mark, and NPLOC had no mark on his body. Our theory about how the welts/black eye/cut came to be is that he was cooperative until the cops started smacking him with a night stick, alcohol + language barrier + pain = he probably started fighting back which made it worse.

In the end of the day, he was charged with assault of a comissioned officer (because NPLOC insisted he hit him), but nothing else. Even though he still has outstanding charges in Italy. After workups and deployment, most of the officers in the battalion got to know both guys very well, and our personal opinion is that NPLOC sold LOR down the river to cover his own ass. He didn't leave the battalion a very popular guy after that incident. LOR, however - still left with a very good reputation among all of the Marines in the battalion, and luckily was able to recover from the incident. He's one of the guys that you want to keep serving, no matter what. Not because he's a partier, or because he harkens back to an earlier day. 99.9% of the time, he did the right thing. Very professional, took his job serioulsy, great leadership ability, took care of the Marines, and also genuinly cared about the Marines image to the public.

The MEU CO let him submit character references, and two stick into my mind. One was a Col who said he would resign his commission if it meant LOR could stay on active duty and get promoted. The other was a woman who had a learning disabled son who loved airplanes. She saw T/M/S that LOR flies working the pattern at a local airport, so she went and picked up her son so he could watch. When they came back, the aircraft had already landed, and her son shouted hello to the pilots. Only one turned around and came to talk to them. He brought them into the flight line, let them climb in the cockpit, gave him stickers/patches, and sent him letters & postcards from all his deployments. He turned into a "big brother" for this kid, and the mother said she'd never forget what hid did for his son (because his grades improved, etc...). Even during the darkest days on deployment, LOR would be writing letters/emails to this kid.

Every, and I mean, EVERY officer in the battalion came into the NJP at some point to appeal to the MEU CO and let him know that this is the guy that needs to be staying in the Marine Corps. No one came into NPLOCs NJP. Needless to say, it was gut-wrenching when we found out what the end result was - but we've all kept in touch and we thrilled when he finally was selected and promoted. At one point, in between promotion boards I was talking to him and told him that everything happens for a reason. He snapped and asked me why this happened. My response? "Dude, you lusted after <female T/M/S pilot> the entire deployment, but never said word one to her. After your NJP, she stopped by the stateroom to see if you needed anything out in town, or a friendly ear. You're married to her now, and none of it would have happened had you not been NJP'd". Him: "Good point."

As for the MEU CO, he retired. Very quietly. So quietly in fact, that his bio was removed from the website and it took a while for a lot of us to find out what happened.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
That's about what I figured. Very interesting.

The unfortunate moral of this story (of many) is that if you're drunk (or have even been drinking) and end up in jail as an officer, all the facts in the world aren't going to help much.

Glad he made it to Major (and hence retirement), but I'd bet dollars to donuts it ends there.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
IIRC (my books are at work), the appealing authority can set aside the NJP (the "it never happened"), reduce the sentence, or deny the appeal completely. And if the Legal O can't or isn't allowed to answer a question, that's why there are JAGs.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
Nope. All he can do is deal with the punishment.

Edit: technically (I.e. It's possible but extremely unlikely) an NJP can be appealed. Since 99% are guilty pleas, the only rational basis is excessive punishment. If the next HHQ completely sets aside the punishment, then the NJP is removed. No punishment=no NJP. The only other hope is "extraordinary circumstances".

"It's a damn shame that this otherwise stellar sailor did this one bad thing and got busted" is probably not going to equate to "extraordinary circumstances".

"So........you're telling me there's a chance. Sweet!"
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'd hope they didn't reward punshment at mast. I assume you meant 'awarded'.

Doesn't matter. The mast stands, even if all the Sailor got was a stern talking-to.

NJP isn't the end of the world for an otherwise good Sailor. The Navy loves nothing so much as a story of a shitbird who was born again hard. You'll find plenty of E-9's who'll tell you about going to mast when they were young and dumb.

Going to mast when you are an E-9 is a different story, of course.
 

CommodoreMid

Whateva! I do what I want!
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'd hope they didn't reward punshment at mast. I assume you meant 'awarded'.

Doesn't matter. The mast stands, even if all the Sailor got was a stern talking-to.

NJP isn't the end of the world for an otherwise good Sailor. The Navy loves nothing so much as a story of a shitbird who was born again hard. You'll find plenty of E-9's who'll tell you about going to mast when they were young and dumb.

Going to mast when you are an E-9 is a different story, of course.

Except now with PTS if you're in an overmanned rate and go to mast, you're basically done. Good luck trying to reenlist.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Nope. All he can do is deal with the punishment.

Edit: technically (I.e. It's possible but extremely unlikely) an NJP can be appealed. Since 99% are guilty pleas, the only rational basis is excessive punishment. If the next HHQ completely sets aside the punishment, then the NJP is removed. No punishment=no NJP. The only other hope is "extraordinary circumstances".

"It's a damn shame that this otherwise stellar sailor did this one bad thing and got busted" is probably not going to equate to "extraordinary circumstances".

"So........you're telling me there's a chance. Sweet!"
Any Sailor can make you go through the appeals paperwork drill. It's their right, and you have to explain it to them, and have them sign the form that they've been briefed. That said the only reasons which would make the appeal valid are unjust or disproportionate punishment.

Whether the appeal gets approved or not is a whole different ball of wax.

Also, I don't know about the USMC, but on the blue side, there are two blocks on the report chit: "Dismissed with warning (not considered NJP)" and "Reprimand." One is NJP; the other is not. Seaman Snuffy can go before a DRB and get reamed by the Chiefs' Mess with a recommendation for NJP, go to XOI and get bitched at by the XO who then forwards the case to Mast. The CO can then give the kid an asschewing of epic proportions, and then dismiss the case, if he sees fit. A reprimand is a punitive ass-chewing which goes on one's record.

Captain's Mast is the process by which the CO reviews all available evidence and then chooses to award NJP or not as he sees fit.
 

gaijin6423

Ask me about ninjas!
If I remember correctly, the rules of evidence (like what you would find at a court martial or civilian criminal trial) don't apply at NJP/mast/office hours/whatveryouwanttocallit. Basically, the court martial convening authority, which you have to be in order to have NJP authority, just determines that you have committed the offense(s), and awards you a punishment commiserate with their level of authority. Which is why all our NJP scripts very explicitly stated, "I have determined that you violated Article [insert number]," or, vice, "I find you guilty of..." Perhaps just a slight distinction, but the JAGs seemed to think it was important. But the lack of evidentiary rules are one of the reasons why NJP is such a good tool, IMO. It lets COs decide a majority of the punishment for their people, without having to deal with the long, painful ass pain of a full-on trial by court martial. In exchange, the NJP'd personnel get hugely reduced punishments (in comparison to a trial).

As the squadron legal-o (untrained, thanks to multiple deployments and exercises), I had the unfortunate duty of supervising the paperwork, attending all NJPs, courts martial, and ADSEP boards, coordinating with MCAS legal, doing brig visits, and dealing with PMO, CID, NCIS, local police, and (once) the FBI and Secret Service. My CO also made me give him executive summaries of any kind of LE report because he, "[Didn't] want to read that shit." I once dry-heaved over my office trashcan for 15 minutes after reading one NCIS report. That guy got 60 years before he was eligible for parole from federal pound me in the ass prison. The MACG, at the time, was the highest incident rate, per capita, in the entire Marine Corps.

All that said, when I was a company commander, I tried like hell to avoid sending anyone to NJP. It was basically the kiss of death for anyone, and I bet it's gotten worse in the year since I got out. I do remembering wishing like hell that they would bring back CCU, but alas...
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
I've never seen the two blocks of "dismissed or reprimand" that you're talking about, but having participated in and conducted dozens of NJPs in several units, I can attest that there are administrative quirks like that in the paperwork in some commands, so there's nothing stopping a command from adding stuff like that if they want to. There's probably other oddities in Army or USAF Article 15s as well.

It's like XOI. It doesn't exist under Article 15, but that's ok. It doesn't exist in the Marine/Sailor's record book either.

Article 15 is an administrative process, vice a criminal one, so you can add whatever other screening processes that the command wants to. You're just limited in the punishments and documentation that you finally impose.
 
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