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Major Housing Update

squorch2 said:
I didn't consider attrition rates or NSS - just the amount of intervention that the stud needed from the command.
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That was an oft quoted statistic at TW-5 while I was there, as well. It was also something usually briefed to studs when they checked in, not to scare them, but to alert them that if they're having issues and meet the mentioned "checks," they needed to let someone know right away so they could be helped and continue on.
 
This is the point I was trying to make - not that married priors with kids get attrited more, but they will probably require more attention. My number-crunching seems to bear that out.
 
While this may hold true for your specific SNA training squadron, it does not ring true for SNFOs. Did age have any bearing or length of marriage or service have any effect on your numbers?

-ea6bflyr ;)
 
e6bflyer said:
Me-ow! Rob can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he was just making a generalization. I think your flame is a little out of the blue. I also went through with a family, but I would never begrudge someone their opinion that doing it another way is better.
Sounds like you have an axe to grind with someone, and I don't think they are here.
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I've got an axe to grind with everyone who automatically assumes that going thru flight school with a family was harder. Flight school is hard enough without folks assuming you'll fail because the wifey is at home. Making "generalizations" has never worked- all of the "isms" are based on generalizations...and look where those got us...Not to mention that they are generally not true.

Anecdotally-I saw as many single or not married folks get smoked on a flight or bone up in the squadron spaces or depart the program as I did married ones. I didn't hook a single flight or have any issues during my stay at the school house...Are there stats that evaluate the performance of studs with families who finish the program?
I've never seen any actual numbers that proved being married, prior, kids, etc actually meant you would have a harder time with flight school...Just the student control inbriefs where I had to raise my hand to say I was married and had a kid and then be told that I would probably attrite because the statistics said so.
 
Sonog said:
For those of us with serious gf's heading to OCS who know they have a good one, but are too broke for a rock.... is there a good/better time in flight school to have them move in?
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Yes. After you get done with your first fleet tour.
 
Brunes said:
I've got an axe to grind with everyone who automatically assumes that going thru flight school with a family was harder. Flight school is hard enough without folks assuming you'll fail because the wifey is at home. Making "generalizations" has never worked- all of the "isms" are based on generalizations...and look where those got us...Not to mention that they are generally not true.

Anecdotally-I saw as many single or not married folks get smoked on a flight or bone up in the squadron spaces or depart the program as I did married ones. I didn't hook a single flight or have any issues during my stay at the school house...Are there stats that evaluate the performance of studs with families who finish the program?
I've never seen any actual numbers that proved being married, prior, kids, etc actually meant you would have a harder time with flight school...Just the student control inbriefs where I had to raise my hand to say I was married and had a kid and then be told that I would probably attrite because the statistics said so.
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I've never been robbed at gun point, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people. I also never got a down in flight school as a single guy, but that's only one data point. It sounds to me like your Stucon brief just had poor delivery (bad on them), but that doesn't change the historical stat (at TW-5, anyway).
 
squorch2 said:
I'll check the stats on Tuesday - don't know for sure.
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I'm also curious how many meet all three. If you have a large percent of n that meet all three then it would make sense that you would have higher problems with that group. What percentage graduate that had all three. Instead of looking at the problem children, take a look at the completes. That will tell a different story.

-ea6bflyr ;)
 
Brunes said:
I've got an axe to grind . . .
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I'm not sure if you need some more fiber in your diet or need to switch to decaf but relax. This is airwarriors, not a congressional testimony. Why are you getting so amp'd up over a couple of conversational opinions? My comments were based on my years of service and what I have seen/witnessed. I think we all know that there may or may not be statistics to back a certain demographic and corresponding success/failure. Sounds like you made your situation work out for you.
 
I wonder if the numbers of married dudes being high at TW-5 has anything to do with the fact that all married guys go to TW-5? Seems only fitting they would have high numbers considering they comprise at least half of the VT/HT population.
 
robav8r said:
I'm not sure if you need some more fiber in your diet or need to switch to decaf but relax. This is airwarriors, not a congressional testimony. Why are you getting so amp'd up over a couple of conversational opinions? My comments were based on my years of service and what I have seen/witnessed. I think we all know that there may or may not be statistics to back a certain demographic and corresponding success/failure. Sounds like you made your situation work out for you.
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Everyone gets passionate about something. A new guy talks about changes to if he can take the Mrs to API or not and gets your opinion that he is better off alone. Of course I'm going to chime in on that-I think the same thing was said by another member too. Having an opinion that folks are better off alone and bringing it up in a conversation where it only marginally applies are two different things.

wlawr005 said:
I wonder if the numbers of married dudes being high at TW-5 has anything to do with the fact that all married guys go to TW-5? Seems only fitting they would have high numbers considering they comprise at least half of the VT/HT population.
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There are several questions I have about how the stats work out. I'm a numbers guy by degree and in practice and have done/seen some "amazing" things come out of a data set...Not all the same answers-but all using the same data.
 
ultimately it ALL comes down to maturity. You guys can piss and moan over numbers and stats all you want, but the FACT is that a mature dude with a wife and kid will do better than an immature swinging single. The guy who has mature study habits and prioritization skills will outpace the dude who has nobody but himself to take care of, but still can't make toast. The problem with both of your generalizations is that they're just that - generalizations. The FACT is that maturity will trump all of this.
 
Recovering LSO said:
ultimately it ALL comes down to maturity. You guys can piss and moan over numbers and stats all you want, but the FACT is that a mature dude with a wife and kid will do better than an immature swinging single. The guy who has mature study habits and prioritization skills will outpace the dude who has nobody but himself to take care of, but still can't make toast. The problem with both of your generalizations is that they're just that - generalizations. The FACT is that maturity will trump all of this.
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Completely agree. I had two on-wings (warning: anecdotal story) that struggled more than others. One was...let's just say he wasn't all that "great" across the board. The other struggled in the "study" category. It wasn't that he had issues being aeronautically adapted, just knowing his stuff enough that he could do it with all the distractions of flying. Why did he struggle with that? He was a prior E-6 and married. Is that enough? Nope. He also had 6 kids. He had plenty of maturity, he just struggled with all his time management. And guess what? He made it. He had the maturity to deal with all his "requirements" and made it happen.
 
Gatordev said:
Completely agree. I had two on-wings (warning: anecdotal story) that struggled more than others. One was...let's just say he wasn't all that "great" across the board. The other struggled in the "study" category. It wasn't that he had issues being aeronautically adapted, just knowing his stuff enough that he could do it with all the distractions of flying. Why did he struggle with that? He was a prior E-6 and married. Is that enough? Nope. He also had 6 kids. He had plenty of maturity, he just struggled with all his time management. And guess what? He made it. He had the maturity to deal with all his "requirements" and made it happen.
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Something interesting just struck me in all of this discussion. If maturity is the "it" factor (and I genreally agree that it is), where does a guy stand on the maturity continuum if he feels compelled to ask people on an internet forum about whether or not he should bring his GF with him to API/Primary/Etc?
 
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