M-16 vs M-4 vs What?

[A4sForever]

BUMP .... I know ... it's old ... but so am I. Good long gun reading and it ain't gonna' hurt anyone ....

*sigh* .... as always, if you don't like it ... there are other threads to peruse ....

 

[pennst8]

BUMP ....I know ... it's old .... but so am I. Good long gun reading and it ain't gonna' hurt anyone ....

*sigh* .... as always, if you don't like it ... there are other threads to peruse ....

Holy thread resurrection Batman... err... A4s...

 

[xmid]

CMMG offers the closest replica to an M-4 upper money can buy, other than paying a $200 tax for an SBR. 14.7 inch upper with a permanently attached A2 flash hider and an accurate 1 in 7 twist. That .2 inches on the barrel is so unnoticeable that side by side with a real M-4 its hard to tell. Too bad they're kinda pricey. I like to build my ar's for around $600 including lower, you can't do this with CMMG but I will eventually get one for my collection.

 

[SpiderUSMC]

What's weird is that I was reading this thread, for the first time, while A4 was apparantly deciding to bump it. <cue the Twilight Zone theme>

 

[A4sForever]

What's weird is that I was reading this thread....A4 was ...deciding to bump it. <cue the Twilight Zone theme>

He's watching you ....

 

[Old NFO]

Probably not --- great innovators, the Filipinos ... you just gotta' understand the P.I. and the way things work over there. It's great --- I hope you get there sometime. See Rome & Die ... ??? Naaaaaaa ...... it's see Manila and Die.... The U.S. Navy is a lesser organization today for its lack of an ongoing Philippine/Subic/Olongapo connection .....

And don't forget Sangley Point.... Sigh... Those were the days... Also, wasn't that pic of the Garrett County from a "few" years ago? Those look like Seawolves on deck with Swifts tied up alongside... maybe Rung Sat?

 

[metro]

I'm a big fan of both the M-16-style rifles and the M-14 style rifles, with a preference for M14/M1As, as I'm more of a distance man, but they both have their uses. For close quarters, an AR-15/M-16/M-4 style is much better suited.

 

[Fly Navy]

However, I do believe a battle rifle to be a more versatile weapon.

Others would disagree. Versatile means it would be good at many different tasks. A heavy, long battle rifle is hardly that.

(Not slamming battle rifles at all, just pointing out that they are not big multi-taskers)

 

[Lawman]

Others would disagree. Versatile means it would be good at many different tasks. A heavy, long battle rifle is hardly that.

(Not slamming battle rifles at all, just pointing out that they are not big multi-taskers)

Especially given the present threat enviroment. When your fighting in a city and the furthest you can observe let alone engage a target is maybe 200 yards you dont really need that long range hitting power from a long barreled heavy rounded battle rifle. And going indoors with something like an M-14 where you have less ammunition per magazine and a weapon that is not as easy to menuver with would be detrimental in many instances.

Plus theres something to be said for when you need to put a lot of fire in a certain direction quickly and accurately at a close range threat. The bad guy is gonna worry more about the number of Bangs being directed in his vicinity as apose to how load the bang is.

 

[A4sForever]

M-16/M-4 and all variants are fine rifles and carbines. The problem ... where there IS one ... is the cartridge.

Falujah and Baghdad ain't anything like an LEO problem in Cincinnati or Detroit --- it's the military and you get points for breaking things. You don't HAVE to be talkin' about targets 200+ yards away. When the Gomers are across the street behind a mud wall or in a cinderblock building --- what are you gonna do when it comes time to put some rounds through "it" and into them ???

Call for a guy with a .308 or a .50 BMG and wait ??? Let's hope not ...

 

[Lawman]

M-16/M-4 and all variants are fine rifles and carbines. The problem ... where there IS one ... is the cartridge.

Falujah and Baghdad ain't anything like an LEO problem in Cincinnati or Detroit --- it's the military and you get points for breaking things. You don't HAVE to be talkin' about targets 200+ yards away. When the Gomers are across the street behind a mud wall or in a cinderblock building --- what are you gonna do when it comes time to put some rounds through "it" and into them ???

Call for a guy with a .308 or a .50 BMG and wait ??? Let's hope not ...

Yes but A4's do you really want to go putting out a large volume of fire knowing that those rounds could penetrate the house the bad guy is standing in front of and end up being the next Marine/Soldier who ends up in tha paper after ventilating some civvy who was huddled in their house trying to avoid the violence on the street?

And if you need somebody to put a lot of wholes through something with a .308 you do have your 240 gunner.

 

[A4sForever]

Yes but A4's do you really want to go putting out a large volume of fire knowing that those rounds could penetrate the house the bad guy is standing in front of and end up being the next Marine/Soldier who ends up in tha paper after ventilating some civvy who was huddled in their house trying to avoid the violence on the street?

I suspect you are being somewhat tongue-in-cheek eek ... but I really don't care .... if more didn't care, we might "win" more hearts 'n minds ... or at least win more wars.

Maybe if the "civvy's" knew we were going to lay down the hammer -- ALWAYS --- they would not be so amenable to becoming collateral damage when considering whether or not to host Abdul Gomer in their hostels and neighborhoods ... ??? :icon_rast

 

[Fly Navy]

Yes but A4's do you really want to go putting out a large volume of fire knowing that those rounds could penetrate the house the bad guy is standing in front of and end up being the next Marine/Soldier who ends up in tha paper after ventilating some civvy who was huddled in their house trying to avoid the violence on the street?

And if you need somebody to put a lot of wholes through something with a .308 you do have your 240 gunner.

That's more of a Law Enforcement mentality. Firefight with badguys... kill the badguys.

 

[Fly Navy]

If you're doing CBQ, wouldn't something like an MP5 or H&K UMP45 (or other submachinegun) be a better choice anyways? You don't need the range of the rifle cartridge, and you have caliber commonality (in the 9mm and .45 ACP respectively) with your backup sidearm.

Police and military forces around the country and world are ditching their 9mm sub-guns and going to 5.56mm short-barrels for this work. 5.56mm is much more effective.

 

[squeeze]

9mm or 45 is fine if you know you are going against a threat w/ no body armor. In an unknown threat, 5.56 wins hands down. Versatility-wise, you're not going to beat the M-4. Period.

And if someone is going to say "blah blah overpenetration" about the 5.56/.223 round in a CQB environment, save your breath. There have been plenty of studies to debunk that myth.