M-16 vs M-4 vs What?

[phrogdriver]

Roger, got yah. When I said that Marine thought it tumbled through air, he thought from barrel to impact lol. So much for being technically proficient.

There's a difference between being technically proficient and technically knowledgable. Both are important at different times. A pilot may be able to fly a perfect instrument approach without knowing a damn thing about how any of the trons work. To be professional, however, you should have at least a working technical knowledge of such things. However, on the extreme, even that can become useless BS.

I can tell time; doesn't mean I can build a clock.

 

[Fly Navy]

There's a difference between being technically proficient and technically knowledgable. Both are important at different times. A pilot may be able to fly a perfect instrument approach without knowing a damn thing about how any of the trons work. To be professional, however, you should have at least a working technical knowledge of such things. However, on the extreme, even that can become useless BS.

I can tell time; doesn't mean I can build a clock.

I know what you're saying, and I agree. I'm not saying a rifleman should know why spin stabilization works, or the physics of a bullet impact, etc. But when you hear something completely ridiculous, most people are apt to say "wtf? bullsh!t". Maybe technically proficient was the wrong phrase.

 

[A4sForever]

Any "operators" or Grunts who might be reading this forum using shotguns ??? Perhaps not germane (a very big pilot word) in Afghanistan, but how about the urban settings in Iraq? I saw some being carried by Marines on Fallujah news footage ..... I "like" combat shotguns ....

U.S. Marines assigned to the Seventh Fleet, Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team (FAST), Third Platoon, fam-fire the Mossberg M500 shotgun aboard USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19). The M500 is a magazine feed, manually operated pump action, smoothbore gun.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

We use the M870 out here. Seems like a good shotgun, don't have any problems putting rounds on target out to 15-25 yards.

 

[Fly Navy]

I have a Remington 870 Express synthetic w/ 18" barrel and magazine extension. I love that shotgun.

 

[Lawman]

Any "operators" or Grunts who might be reading this forum using shotguns ??? Perhaps not germane (a very big pilot word) in Afghanistan, but how about the urban settings in Iraq? I saw some being carried by Marines on Fallujah news footage ..... I "like" combat shotguns ....

U.S. Marines assigned to the Seventh Fleet, Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team (FAST), Third Platoon, fam-fire the Mossberg M500 shotgun aboard USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19). The M500 is a magazine feed, manually operated pump action, smoothbore gun.

The Current "Shotgun of Choice" or at least the one they are buying to replace the mossys and winchesters is the Benelli M4. Now yeah its a semi-auto(gas) shotgun, and yeah that seems to freak people out. However after firing one and its recoil operated cousin the M1 Tactical, these weapons are a brilliant tool. And they are in and around in Iraq right now, the problem has been so far getting ammo to the troops that have them. 5.56 and 7.62 can be had for nothing, but Ive seen pictures of Marines with half empty bandoliers getting ready to go out on patrol.

A4 - Yes the .270 was slatted as a possible round way back in the day it just didnt have that deer killing aura of the 30-06. But also another close example of the US military passing up on a true assault rifle caliber was with the development of the FN FAL. Originally the Brits wanted to have a special order on the weapon to fit there .280 Infield but as the US was considering buying the weapon at the time we forced the idea that all rifles should be interchangable and demanded the weapon in .308 caliber. Our mistake as the Brits bought the FAL and even used it in the first gulf war after experaincing problems with the LA85's (Junk bullpup crap). After owning a FAL (DSA SA58) I can tell you why you see them all over Africa. They are without a doubt one of the most cost effective and capable battle rifles anywhere in the world. The only weapon in .308 that could be considered anywhere near superior would be the H&K 91, and even that is only marginal in differnce.

By the way, first post, figured Id trolled the forum long enough may as well start contributing.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

The Current "Shotgun of Choice" or at least the one they are buying to replace the mossys and winchesters is the Benelli M4.

Hmmm...never seen it called a Benelli M4 before...It has always been an M1014 when we used it.

I have used that shotgun, it is farking awesome.

It can fire all 7 shells (one in chamber, 6 in tube) before the casing from the first shell hit's the deck.

Hmm...it's called the M4 on Benelli's site:
http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/m4.tpl

But M1014 on a Marine Corps site:
http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/M1014/M1014NF.htm

Intellesting...

Edit: Pictured above is the M1014 from the USMC site.

Here is the M4 from the Benelli site:

 

[Fly Navy]

Having problems getting 12 gauge? That's bad. 12 gauge is one of the cheapest things to make. Someone fvcked up in supply.

 

[Lawman]

No differnt then calling the Berreta M9 a 92FS. Only thing that sucks is that civilians/non-leo's can only get the shotgun with a fixed stock. They sell ones that are identical to the military version, but the stock is non-collapsable and you have to buy the mag extention extra. Ive got an M1 Tactical, and yeah you can empty the tube before the first shell hits the ground, and be very accurate with it at the same time. I actually started carrying it instead of the Moss 590's that we are issued, got a whole lot of oohhs and ahhhs the first couple days.

 

[Lawman]

Having problems getting 12 gauge? That's bad. 12 gauge is one of the cheapest things to make. Someone fvcked up in supply.

I think it was just one of those "What are they gonne need those for" kinda deals and then later came back to bite them. Remember we were supposed to be greated as Liberators by massive groups of happy Iraqi's I dont think house to house city fighting was much on the plan when they started preparing for the invasion.

 

[Fly Navy]

No differnt then calling the Berreta M9 a 92FS. Only thing that sucks is that civilians/non-leo's can only get the shotgun with a fixed stock. They sell ones that are identical to the military version, but the stock is non-collapsable and you have to buy the mag extention extra. Ive got an M1 Tactical, and yeah you can empty the tube before the first shell hits the ground, and be very accurate with it at the same time. I actually started carrying it instead of the Moss 590's that we are issued, got a whole lot of oohhs and ahhhs the first couple days.

Ban is over man... anyone should be able to get the collapsable, provided you don't live in MA, CA, etc.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

No differnt then calling the Berreta M9 a 92FS.

Yeah you are right, lol.

Don't know why I was thinking they would call it the same thing.

Edit: There are some minor differences though, like the tube extension for 2 more shells.

 

[Lawman]

Ban is over man... anyone should be able to get the collapsable, provided you don't live in MA, CA, etc.

True except for a couple of fun little details that will get you a 4th degree felony arrest, because ignorance of the law isnt an excuse. Your still limited on the barrel length of a gun, I.E. you as a private citizen are not permitted to buy the 11 inch barrel uppers for an AR-15. Also there may be local ordinances which until your state attorney general rules them to be null and void, such as in Ohio Toledos numerous anti CCW laws, you still have to abide by them. I believe a local level AW Ban was proposed for San Fransico not to long ago, luckily it was defeated. Also for a little bit of Irony, Camp Perry exists in an area of Ohio in which it is illegal to own/purchase an AR-15. So transporting it to and from Camp Perry is fine, just dont stop to pee.

And then there are some companies such as Springfield Arms and Colt that still act like the ban is in place for some odd reason. Companies that refuse to sell Hi-Cap mags, collapsable stocks, flash suppresors, ect to anyone that isnt LEO or Military. Benelli is one of them, and will not sell direct or through aftermarket groups any of its collapsable stocks to non LEO/Military so you have to go find a company that makes something that will fit, Ive got an AR-15 style stock on mine, looks wicked.

 

[Fly Navy]

True except for a couple of fun little details that will get you a 4th degree felony arrest, because ignorance of the law isnt an excuse. Your still limited on the barrel length of a gun, I.E. you as a private citizen are not permitted to buy the 11 inch barrel uppers for an AR-15. Also there may be local ordinances which until your state attorney general rules them to be null and void, such as in Ohio Toledos numerous anti CCW laws, you still have to abide by them. I believe a local level AW Ban was proposed for San Fransico not to long ago, luckily it was defeated. Also for a little bit of Irony, Camp Perry exists in an area of Ohio in which it is illegal to own/purchase an AR-15. So transporting it to and from Camp Perry is fine, just dont stop to pee.

Yep, more than aware of this. I've been researching gun laws for a long time. I also grew up in Massachusetts. Horrible horrible gun laws. Very interesting on Campy Perry though... Figures.

And then there are some companies such as Springfield Arms and Colt that still act like the ban is in place for some odd reason. Companies that refuse to sell Hi-Cap mags, collapsable stocks, flash suppresors, ect to anyone that isnt LEO or Military. Benelli is one of them, and will not sell direct or through aftermarket groups any of its collapsable stocks to non LEO/Military so you have to go find a company that makes something that will fit, Ive got an AR-15 style stock on mine, looks wicked.

Colt is such a PC company now. They caved in long ago, and it makes me mad. I wasn't aware Benelli was one of them. It really bothers me when companies do this. Meanwhile, every other company is cashing in big time on the ban expiration. Many AR makers are backed up beyond belief.

 

[Lawman]

Mass... sorry to hear that. But hey I live in Ohio and we're the Bluest red state in the Union, so I feel your pain as to assinine rules put together by people who ignore logic in regards to firearms. I especially loved not being able to wear my sidearm offduty as a LEO if a buisness decided to put up a sign saying that no one that respects the law can have a firearm on the premises. That kind of crap really shows its ignorance after an Off-duty OHP officer was shot and killed at a buisness which did not allow him to carry his weapon.

The whole company thing really pisses me off now that I lost my LEO status when I changed jobs. 6 months ago, I could buy anything I wanted just give them my agency number, now Im still doing law enforcement (private) but Im treated like a vigilante, even though Im OPOTA certified from the Akron Police Academy, an I still have a "Green Card" to be a firearms bearer in the state of Ohio. Hell half the guys in my company are current LEO's doing it part time, the rest of us are guys that realized the pay is better and we get better hours and overtime, plus were less likely to be fired so the local mayor's husband can cruise around in not one but four new SUV's. Theres a few dozen Cleveland Police officers that will tell you all you want to know about that one. Heck Private Law Enforcement is actually a whole lot bigger field then local level Law Enforcement.

Disclaimer: This is not ranting, want to see that, start talking about how your glock is better then any other handgun on the market. Then you can see a rant.