Low NSS's get boarded

[zippy]

Work hard and do your best to suck less then the average student. Do that and your NSS will work out. Having seen the performance level of some people who made it to the fleet who were sub-standard performers in flight school, I think the NSS based review is a good thing. Those poor performers don't magically get better get better when their wings are pinned on, and the stakes are much higher once you leave the land of orange and white.

 

[mountaineers33]

During Advanced guys with low NSS's were sent to the E-2/C-2 pipeline in Meridian in Phase II but low NSSers in Phase I went to a board and some kept and some kicked... honestly it depends how well you are liked at some squadrons, yes even in training commands. I don't know about Primary though, just remember someone will have a low NSS regardless... just don't be that guy. Study and be prepared and you should be fine. Bottom line, suck less then your classmates but don't be a douche about it!

 

[exhelodrvr]

There are some who are slow starters, and then do great.
Others are quick starters, and then fizzle out. (You can use that on a variety of topics - talk amongst yourselves!)

That cycle repeats itself at every stage of the pipeline.

The hard part is determining how to let the first group continue, while catching those in the second group.

 

[armada1651]

The hard part is determining how to let the first group continue, while catching those in the second group.

Especially because our grading system pretty much does the opposite.

 

[torpedo0126]

CNATRA has stated that training squadrons can attrite for NSS less than 35. Like Zippy said, stay above 35 and it wont be an issue. If you are below a 35, standby for an FPC and possible attrition.

This is exactly what they have been telling us here. After any stage here, if you hit below 35NSS or reach a total of 5 UNSATS your training jacket will be reviewed to see why this is happening. If its because you are having trouble flying, they will work out something. If its because you are getting flight UNSATS for procedures or ready room downs then an FPC might be in your future.

 

[scoolbubba]

Vance or no Vance, below 35 is still a warning sign. I can think of several dudes who were bumped down the road until they hit the fleet and continue to struggle there...except now, instead of just an IP and another stud, they fly with a crew of 11.

 

[81montedriver]

This is exactly what they have been telling us here. After any stage here, if you hit below 35NSS or reach a total of 5 UNSATS your training jacket will be reviewed to see why this is happening. If its because you are having trouble flying, they will work out something. If its because you are getting flight UNSATS for procedures or ready room downs then an FPC might be in your future.

5 unsats? They always told us you were gone after 3 unsats cumulative for all of flight school.

 

[nittany03]

5 unsats? They always told us you were gone after 3 unsats cumulative for all of flight school.

MPTS system, not old-style above/below.

 

[Jim123]

There are two different kinds of UNSATs in MPTS... sort of... very bad UNSATs and regular bad but still bad UNSATs. There is also still Marginal.

A flight that used to be one below will still be a flight with bad grades under the new system. An old system "two below and one above" flight might be marginal now (shot across the bow). A flight that might have been a marginal in the old system might be the lesser kind of UNSAT now (plenty of attention and death by counseling but usually keep pressing) or it could still be marginal. The wrong combination (two in a row, etc.), getting shot on a checkride, failing an academic test, or getting a ready room down are all automatic extra special attention. Also, the squadron CO always has the discretion to give a student "extra special attention." Sort of like that- but this is the short explanation.

Special policies come and go over the years- three strikes you're out, one strike you're out, 5 UNSATs or 5 UNSATs plus Marginals you're (probably) attrited, xx NSS and below gets flagged, etc.

Completing flight school now with MPTS grades meeting the minimum absolute standard (the infamous "MIF") while saying that NSS doesn't matter and you're prepared for the FRS and the fleet is like barely passing your driving test and bragging about your shiny new license. It's also like getting a diploma for a D- average. Seriously.

Hope that helps. Clear as mud? FlyBoyd or one of the other experienced TRACOM guys, can you weigh in?

 

[nittany03]

Completing flight school now with MPTS grades meeting the minimum absolute standard (the infamous "MIF") while saying that NSS doesn't matter and you're prepared for the FRS and the fleet is like barely passing your driving test and bragging about your shiny new license. It's also like getting a diploma for a D- average. Seriously.

This needs to be framed and hung in every student ready room in CNATRA.

 

[torpedo0126]

There are two different kinds of UNSATs in MPTS... sort of... very bad UNSATs and regular bad but still bad UNSATs. There is also still Marginal.

I had a quick question...does receiving an overall marginal adversely affect your grade? I know you can receive a marginal for having one thing below MIF. It only takes the IP to feel that whatever you're doing may cause you not to make MIF at the end of the block or not pass your check etc. But does the actual overall grade of marginal adversely affect your score?

 

[Jim123]

I had a quick question...does receiving an overall marginal adversely affect your grade? I know you can receive a marginal for having one thing below MIF. It only takes the IP to feel that whatever you're doing may cause you not to make MIF at the end of the block or not pass your check etc. But does the actual overall grade of marginal adversely affect your score?

No, marginal doesn't affect the score. It's a judgment call by the instructor and it means exactly what you describe--the item(s) might not be up to snuff by the end of that block of flights (as opposed to an isolated helmet fire only on that one day). It can be used constructively because it is a signal to the next instructor and to the schedule writers (it is not only "encouragement" to the student in the form of negative reinforcement). The next instructor gets a heads-up to pay a more attention to the specific problem area and the student might subsequently be selectively scheduled with more experienced instructors. The point is so the student and instructor(s) will know to work together to fix the problem.

 

[Jim123]

This needs to be framed and hung in every student ready room in CNATRA.

There used to be something very similar in one of the CNATRA instructions, something like if you wouldn't want the person in your cockpit/on your wing/etc. on a dark and stormy night...

 

[zippy]

I had a quick question...does receiving an overall marginal adversely affect your grade? I know you can receive a marginal for having one thing below MIF. It only takes the IP to feel that whatever you're doing may cause you not to make MIF at the end of the block or not pass your check etc. But does the actual overall grade of marginal adversely affect your score?

Marginals take .5 off of your NSS.
Unsats take 1.0 off of your NSS.

 

[Jim123]

Marginals take .5 off of your NSS.
Unsats take 1.0 off of your NSS.

I stand corrected--sort of--let me explain. I'm looking at a formula in the master curriculum guide (the little green book) for advanced helo. 90% of grades come from flight/sim events (compared to the squadron average), the other 10% come from unsats and marginals (again, compared to the squadron average). This score gets normalized/bell curved and out comes NSS. The '04 and '09 guides have basically the same formulas (I have other years around here...somewhere...). The way I look at the formula, I'm pretty sure marginals and unsats have equal effect. I don't remember my statistics well enough to look at the formula and come up with a rule of thumb of x unsats/marginals = -y points of NSS. I don't know if the other phases and pipelines are the same or different.

Sorry about missing that one though. It's a pretty significant "detail."