-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Likelihood of being selected to go P3?
- Thread starter AnonymousGuy
- Start date
<Sigh> . . .yeah, totally.
A glimmer of hope: when I went through the Fleet IUT, the 30 guys made a point of showing how everyone in the room could quote the precise amount of hyd fluid that can leak out of the brake fuses before they seal themselves off, but nobody could identify threat ranges of common SAMs or release envelopes for SLAM-ER.
It was kind of a cool, mea culpa, "we know we taught you to do this, but you kinda went overboard with it. . .and we need you to stop."
(And, FTR, some of us always ask for the option.)
Brett is used to operating at Navy fields, where nobody cares who starts motors where. P-3's fly out of international airports on the reg, where ground is choreographing everything like a Boeing ballet. You WILL get your nuts hammered if you just push back and spin up motors without telling anyone.
I suppose we do it everywhere else so that it just becomes habit and we never forget. (yeah, I know. . .)
Also, for helos, it's standard practice at AFB fields to request engine start/rotor engagement. But at NAS or MCAS airfields, they don't give a shit and will quizzically reply in the affirmative if you ask. I've had HAC/CPs "correct" me for not asking at a non AF field, because they didn't realize that it's just a homefield ops idiosyncrasy of the AF and the Navy and MC don't give a shit.
Why not just hold somewhere until all NATOPS items are cleaned up/briefed and once ready to land you exit holding?
Brett has also operated from many USAFBs and INTL civilian airports, and never once requested permission to start engines. I'm guessing the E-2/C-2 crowd doesnt either. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that since you guys are all brainwashed/programmed to request permission, nobody has ever tried to do otherwise, thus nobody has had their "nuts hammered" for not doing it. I think that's a made up concept and that nobody would bat an eye in 95% of places.
Since we've turned this into a hate on VP thread (smiles, of course), here's a novel idea: instead of being mindless automatons, why not perform extra steps only when they're required? If you are such a slave to standardization and habit patterns, I wonder what you do when the requirements of your mission requires flexibility, or the ability to adapt to novel situations. In short, I'm saying that you're all better than that. Give yourselves some credit here.
Brett
Yeah, sorry 'bout that, but it's sure a lot more insightful than a bunch of folks giving students "advice" on how to game the system...
Should have locked this when it became a "what are my chances" thread, but we didn't.....
It's what they do. The VP guys have a long sordid history of non-standard operations, radio verbosity (when they're on UHF) and otherwise going out of their way to make life difficult for themselves and everyone trying to operate in a given Class C. Nobody on ground ever will care (or have the knowledges or authority) to grant them permission to start their engines, etc, etc, etc, but that won't stop them from following their VP-30 script to the letter.
It's what they do.
Brett
We've actually, for the most part, broken this habit in Jax. No one calls for starts there, anymore. We do on deployment by the nature of where we operate from (some fields that do not float or make their own wind require starts to be called for...gasp! the boat is not necessarily the end all be all of aviation! for shame!) The world has not ended since we stopped calling for starts. If we could convince the jax helos inbound to the seawall or crossing under us at 500' to talk on uniform, we'd have an all around happy airspace thing going on.
One of my pet peeves is radio diarrhea. I think my reputation has begun to precede me with the 2 and 3Ps to unfuck their comms, especially when dealing with the boat or any coord ops environment. I get angry when a winged aviator sounds like a primary stud every time they key the mike. I blame the lack of CP time at VP-30, but some is just plain old retardation.
Brett has probably broken many host country's / international airfield's regulations / procedures without knowing it.
Many international airfields require engine start permission from ground.
That was partially my point. If those were the rules and I broke them regularly without so much as an anoyed radio call from Ground then, more than likely, nobody cares. Maybe we're all just so bad ass in our jets that nobody will dare to challenge us. That's probably it.
Brett
Actually, as a COD guy, we do ask for permission to start engines, WHEN we are at a field that requires it. Otherwise, we just do it. Just like Brett is asking the P-3 guys to do...
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Norfolk always required "Griffin xx radio check engine start LP-27"
Which meant about 5 minutes of confusion on ground, if they answer at all
Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
Which meant about 5 minutes of confusion on ground, if they answer at all
Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
Brett has also operated from many USAFBs and INTL civilian airports, and never once requested permission to start engines. I'm guessing the E-2/C-2 crowd doesnt either. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that since you guys are all brainwashed/programmed to request permission, nobody has ever tried to do otherwise, thus nobody has had their "nuts hammered" for not doing it. I think that's a made up concept and that nobody would bat an eye in 95% of places.
Since we've turned this into a hate on VP thread (smiles, of course), here's a novel idea: instead of being mindless automatons, why not perform extra steps only when they're required? If you are such a slave to standardization and habit patterns, I wonder what you do when the requirements of your mission requires flexibility, or the ability to adapt to novel situations. In short, I'm saying that you're all better than that. Give yourselves some credit here.
Brett
Definately agreed that you could probably get away with it if they don't ask for it on the radio. But most times in my experience on an AFB has been something like this post clearance, "Readback correct, contact ground for engine start and taxi."