LDO vs. CWO

[Thisguy]

That's like saying a LCDR is a lieutenant, or a MGEN is a Major. It might be appropriate to address him as "Chief" in the Army, but he isn't "still a chief."

It's definitely a culture shock. If you refer to an Army CWO as a "Warrant" (like we do in the Navy), they'll get this weird look on their face.

 

[Brett327]

As far as a squadron goes, many of the Maint type LDOs and CWOs are functionally the same and will both trade off jobs between MMCO and AMO.

Brett

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

That's like saying a LCDR is a lieutenant, or a MGEN is a Major. It might be appropriate to address him as "Chief" in the Army, but he isn't "still a chief."

I was just being sarcastic, but the point of my post was that since he was in the Army, even if the CWO was a hardass, he shouldn't have flipped out for being called a chief and simply taken the time to explain to him the difference between a navy chief and chief warrant officer. He should have given him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't calling him a chief to be disrespectful.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I was just being sarcastic, but the point of my post was that since he was in the Army, even if the CWO was a hardass, he shouldn't have flipped out for being called a chief and simply taken the time to explain to him the difference between a navy chief and chief warrant officer. He should have given him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't calling him a chief to be disrespectful.

I knew what you meant. It's just like in the Navy that calls their Ordnance Warrant Officers "Gunner". I had to explain it to the grunts that it is just a culture thing and let it go. The reason they got so fired up is that a Gunner in the Marine Corps is a very specific MOS for a Warrant Officer - and it's a speciality that is very hard to earn, so they are fiercely proud of it and get offended when people refer to any Warrant Officer (other than an honest to god Infantry Weapons Officer) as Gunner.

 

[Harrier Dude]

There are a lot of folks that get spun up by these differences in nomenclature. When I was a MEU assistant Air-O, we had CWOs, no-shit gunners, Master Sergeants, and Gunnys that would get really bent about this. When we were with the army in Kuwait, the army guys would call over asking for "Chief Benotz" (meaning Chief Warrant Officer Benotz), "Sergeant Schmuckatelli" (meaning Gunnery Sergeant Schmucketelli) and the like. I myself got blasted for calling a Master Sergeant "Top", which is quite common and accepted in the air wing. Some of them don't like it. Also, it's common (though not technically correct) to call CWOs in the airwing "Gunner". At the same time, many grunts will call a Captain "skipper", which I always found odd. I understand why they do it (Company Commanders), but it just seemed a little odd from my perspective.

The best bet is to always go formal (Chief Warrant Officer, Master Gunnerery Sergeant, etc) until either they tell you it's cool to call them something else, or you see enough other people equal to you (in terms of rank, experience, and familiarity) call them something different. If you go formal, the worst thing people will think is that you're a little stuffy. Better that than causing a scene or embarrasing yourself.

 

[Brett327]

The best bet is to always go formal (Chief Warrant Officer, Master Gunnerery Sergeant, etc) until either they tell you it's cool to call them something else, or you see enough other people equal to you (in terms of rank, experience, and familiarity) call them something different. If you go formal, the worst thing people will think is that you're a little stuffy. Better that than causing a scene or embarrasing yourself.

The BEST bet (assuming they are junior to you), IMO, is to tell people who get all excited about these kinds of things to settle the fuck down.

Brett

 

[Uncle Fester]

Ah, the joys of joint duty. I've been called "captain" here so many times now, it's stopped being weird. And don't forget, of course, that an AF Chief is another animal altogether (E-9); they also get prickly about the "Chief" deal.

There are some more fundamental inter-service issues that start cropping up in joint commands; e.g., the Army seems to consider "senior enlisted leadership" as E-8 and above, not E-7 and above. Army Warrants seem to hold a leadership/management position more analogous to Navy LDOs than Navy Warrants. It takes some ironing out, but as long as everyone doesn't go in with a "everyone do it my way" attitude and keeps their knickers straight, it works out. I didn't know much of anything about the Army way of doing business before this IA jam, but NIACT and six months of working for an Army boss have been educational in a good way.

 

[phrogpilot73]

...the Army seems to consider "senior enlisted leadership" as E-8 and above, not E-7 and above.

And in the Marine Corps, we view our senior leaders as E-6 and above...

 

[Harrier Dude]

Ah, the joys of joint duty. I've been called "captain" here so many times now, it's stopped being weird. And don't forget, of course, that an AF Chief is another animal altogether (E-9); they also get prickly about the "Chief" deal.

I thought they just called them "Dave" or "Larry".

There are some more fundamental inter-service issues that start cropping up in joint commands; e.g., the Army seems to consider "senior enlisted leadership" as E-8 and above, not E-7 and above.

We have the same problem with the navy when on the ship. We classify our enlisted as "junior enlisted" (Pvt-LCpl), NCOs (Cpl and Sgt), SNCOs (SSgt and GySgt), and Senior SNCOs (Msgt/1stSgt and MGySgt/SgtMaj).

The navy seems to have 3 classes. Officers, Chiefs, and everybody else. Our Staff Sergeants always seem to get lumped in with "everybody else" when we more closely associate them with the Gunnery Sergeants/Chiefs. It becomes a big deal in messing and berthing.

 

[Stearmann4]

Seriously, people need to get over themselves. How about educating a brother-in-arm about his sister service.

When I was a Chief, I would've gotten knee deep in a PO1, or PO2 for not knowing, but I'm lucky I can figure out ranks from the other services, I sure don't expect anyone outside my branch to know mine, let alone all the service-specfic slang and traditions.

People like that were jackassess when they were E-1s..khakis are just geography.

 

[raptor10]

I knew what you meant. It's just like in the Navy that calls their Ordnance Warrant Officers "Gunner". I had to explain it to the grunts that it is just a culture thing and let it go. The reason they got so fired up is that a Gunner in the Marine Corps is a very specific MOS for a Warrant Officer - and it's a speciality that is very hard to earn, so they are fiercely proud of it and get offended when people refer to any Warrant Officer (other than an honest to god Infantry Weapons Officer) as Gunner.

Yeah, when people ask what my dad does, it was always interesting to explain first what an LDO is and second why they called him Gunner.

 

[Scoob]

Ah, the joys of joint duty. I've been called "captain" here so many times now, it's stopped being weird.

My favorite part of IA duty was talking to an Army/AF Captain on the phone. Every now and then, once I'd identified myself as LT Umptyfratz, I could hear their tone change into: "I am your superior officer and you will respect me!!" (Usually freshly minted ones.)

At that point, I would start throwing a lot of "man", "bud", "dude" around just to jerk their chain.

...and then, of course, there's that ENORMOUS jump (think: the cliff every Marine must climb before fighting the lava monster) between O-3 and O-4 in the Army - got to have fun with that one, too.

Good times.

 

[HAL Pilot]

^ When I was at Southcom as a LCDR, my U.S. Army South counterpart was a COL. It took him a while to understand tasking went from from the unified command to to subordinate command....."Yes sir, I understand you are busy but I need......"

This COL was really into the whole "Hooah" thing. I used to jerk his chain by saying "Gesundheit" every time he said "Hooah".

(For the unwashed masses, the Army says "Hooah" repeatedly in every conversation and in every situation. It means everything but "no".)

 

[Scoob]

They give a pretty good INDOC to "Hooah" at Ft. Jackson. I fought it alot, but grudgingly embraced it by the time I left.

When I got to Afghanistan and was quickly absorbed like an errant Cheerio into the wing-wearing Navy JOPA/SOPA/NOPA - somebody told me, "if you say Hooah, so help me God I will slap you."

Then there was the 82nd Airborne Division's "Airborne" hooah-ness whenever they saluted (which usually came out about like "Hyah-BONE"). We tried to come up with a good reply:
- Chairborne
- In flight
- Aaaa-float
- At sea
- Ihavethecontrols
- Fvck you, I'm Navy.

 

[skim]

Again just curious, but why do some become LDO and others CWO if they have the same background, or what seperates them to become either LDO or CWO? Just needs of Navy?