Last Class

[BACONATOR]

The only reason I ask is because I want to be as prepared as possible, so I was curious if the guys who attrited were just lazy slobs, never memorized the stuff they were supposed to going in, dropped out voluntarily, or had bad attitudes; or if it's really just that rigorous. I was under the impression that attrition was significantly lower than 50%.

Stupid question: Am I correct to assume that 'beatings' doesn't refer to being punched and kicked to a pulp by the DI?

If you are purposely sand-bagging, you will get counseled and can be dropped from the class. I don't know that this happened (at least while I was there) but it certainly can. People dropped for all sorts of reasons. It's a tough program, and sh!t happens.

And as for the beatings...no. It isn't SERE school, the staff can't strike you. That comes later on in your career.

 

[loadtoad]

If you are purposely sand-bagging, you will get counseled and can be dropped from the class.

Trust him on this... #1 sand bagger. No lie

 

[HH-60H]

But if they moved schools to Florida, Newport wouldn't have much to offer as a naval base and the Secretary of Defense would've gone after it looking to shut it down during BRAC 2005.

The Naval War College isn't much to offer?

 

[HH-60H]

And as for the beatings...no. It isn't SERE school, the staff can't strike you. That comes later on in your career.

Let's not go too far down this path.....

 

[Spekkio]

If you are purposely sand-bagging, you will get counseled and can be dropped from the class. I don't know that this happened (at least while I was there) but it certainly can. People dropped for all sorts of reasons. It's a tough program, and sh!t happens.

And as for the beatings...no. It isn't SERE school, the staff can't strike you. That comes later on in your career.

I have no intention of "sandbagging" at OCS. I actually asked my recruiter about this, and he said the reason for such a high attrition rate is that people would take and barely pass the PRT after being pro-recced. Then in the next couple months they'd let themselves go and end up failing the in-PRT at OCS. He said there's a new policy now that people take the PRT before handing in the application and then again within 2 weeks before shipping out to OCS. If you fail that, then you don't go.

 

[skim]

He said there's a new policy now that people take the PRT before handing in the application and then again 2 weeks within shipping out to OCS. If you fail that, then you don't go.

That sounds good to me.

 

[xmid]

He said there's a new policy now that people take the PRT before handing in the application and then again 2 weeks within shipping out to OCS. If you fail that, then you don't go.

I can confirm this. I had my pre-in-PRT on Monday.

 

[Spekkio]

Yea. He told me he was amazed at how many applicant's he'd see that can't do 20 pushups after months of training.

 

[red1323]

...there's a new policy now that people take the PRT before handing in the application and then again 2 weeks within shipping out to OCS. If you fail that, then you don't go.

That was in place when I got into OCS and 21 out of the 31 roll-outs were for in-PFA failure. We had one guy state on a public forum that he thought it would be a good idea to sandbag the in to make sure he showed improvement on the mid, he didn't make it past in-PFA. Others just had lax recruiters or managed to slip through the cracks. People don't realize that the in-PFA is taken the third day after you are sleep deprived, have massive indigestion, totally stressed and have been doing more running/shouting/pushing than ever before. I dropped a minute off the run, 20 curlups and 10 pushups from the PFA I ran with my recruiter two weeks prior. That being said, the mins are REALLY low and I still passed, but people who are borderline and expect to come in here and squeak by usually roll.

The other 10 roll outs consisted of medical and DOR candidates, we didn't loose anyone to inspections or academic failures. There are some classes that have a 70% attrition rate and some with a 10%, it doesn't always indicate the strength of the class, some people just show up unprepared (all ours were within the first 3 weeks).

Sidenote to Spekkio: just because you get dropped from a class doesn't mean you don't graduate, we started with 56, dropped 31 and picked up 26 to graduate with 51 candidates.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Sidenote to Spekkio: just because you get dropped from a class doesn't mean you don't graduate, we started with 56, dropped 31 and picked up 26 to graduate with 51 candidates.

Those who went to AOCS think OCS is pvssified. Those who went to OCS 5 years ago think OCS now is pvssified...Everyone wants to think he had it harder than the enxt guy. Everyone needs to stop this dick-size contest..

AOCS Class 16-83. Started with 75, commissioned 18 (including those who rolled in from other classes). We had one of the higher commissioning numbers of the time. A couple of classed before mine, they only commissioned 9.

So yes, we did have bigger dicks at AOCS. It was a lot harder program too.

 

[BACONATOR]

AOCS Class 16-83. Started with 75, commissioned 18 (including those who rolled in from other classes). We had one of the higher commissioning numbers of the time. A couple of classed before mine, they only commissioned 9.

So yes, we did have bigger dicks at AOCS. It was a lot harder program too.

An OCS staff member told us that this was because to get TO AOCS was a lot easier, but attrition was much higher. They changed the process to make it much more difficult to get in to OCS by weeding out people beforehand so that when they get to OCS they have a much higher chance of making it. Perhaps he was blowing smoke, or maybe it's true, but an explanation nonetheless.

 

[red1323]

I didn't find OCS that difficult. It was challenging, and parts of it definitely sucked in a big way, but honestly, for the people who wanted to just get through, it was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Just my $0.02 though.

 

[puck_11]

People don't realize that the in-PFA is taken the third day after you are sleep deprived, have massive indigestion, totally stressed and have been doing more running/shouting/pushing than ever before. I dropped a minute off the run, 20 curlups and 10 pushups from the PFA I ran with my recruiter two weeks prior. That being said, the mins are REALLY low and I still passed, but people who are borderline and expect to come in here and squeak by usually roll.

That's good gouge for you future candidates, everyone drops on the in PFA, and if you're borderline you are screwing yourself. The only people that we had attrite were absolute shit bags. We had one guy Attiles "Heel" who was an absolute shit bag, rolled from class to class. Didn't listen to the candios, would sand bag it during any RPT/PT (screaming and grunting so the DI's would think he was "working" so hard, when you could tell he was half assing it), and had a bad attitude in general. They say its pretty hard to attrite from OCS, I'd venture to say that a high 90s percentage commision. But once you get all of the staff including DIs, Officers, Chiefs, pissed off at you, the ball rolls pretty easily towards your attrition. And after a failed RLP inspection this kid was immediately taken out and put into student pool (or whatever you call it) and was wating processing towards Great Lakes to fulfill the rest of his contract. It wasn't his first pink slip, but they didn't cut him any slack. The other chick that we had attrite was due to her faking injuries all of the time to get out of PT and eventually getting caught with Geedunk in her locker a few times.

Basically know your stuff, work your ass off, don't complain, and if you mess up, own up to that. DI's love that, don't even hesitate, if you get called out they're checking to see your response.

 

[HAL Pilot]

An OCS staff member told us that this was because to get TO AOCS was a lot easier, but attrition was much higher. They changed the process to make it much more difficult to get in to OCS by weeding out people beforehand so that when they get to OCS they have a much higher chance of making it. Perhaps he was blowing smoke, or maybe it's true, but an explanation nonetheless.

He was blowing smoke. I had at least 10 friends apply at the same time I did and only 2 of us got accepted. All would have been competitive now based on the applicant backgrounds I read on this site. Further, there was no reapplying if you got turned down - 1 appeal of the denial if you could show where a mistake was made in the processing of your application.

OCS has gotten easier with all the political correctness and the pussification of America. I have no doubt my AOCS was easier than the guys who went through 10 years before me.

Red flag? Black flag? What are those? The DIs didn't give a shit if it was 100 degrees with 100% humidity. Well maybe they would PT us in the mud pit under the air conditioners to keep us cool. And then PT us some more because our uniforms were now dirty.

Our 2 hour block of drill was 1+45 of PT and 0+15 of marching.

Ever have a DI at 2100 take a pair of scissors to all your khaki shirts to show you exactly where the military crease was supposed to go, then PT you the next morning from 0700 the next morning until the NEX opened (so you could buy new ones ) because you were out of uniform?

Did anyone ever leave their rifle in an unlocked locker, have it disassembled by a DI with the pieces buried in different locations in the bushes surrounding the barracks? And then get PTed for hours everyday for weeks because their rifle was missing pieces? Or PTed because he was out after curfew with a flashlight looking for the pieces? Or because he was in a dirty uniform from digging in the bushes looking for the pieces?

These were normal occurrences at AOCS. Each happened to at least one candidate in every class.

Flight school was different back then too. They didn't care how many flunked out. NFOs had about a 25% winging rate and pilots were about 40%.

I'm not saying it is not still tough to get through OCS but it is not as difficult as it was in the AOCS days. Boot camp is easier on the enlisted side too. It is more of a function of what society expects and will accept. People now days will not accept the OCS and boot camps of yesterday. Mentally what is tough today was the norm yesterday. And what is unacceptable today was tough yesterday. This is a direct reflection of the U.S. society as a whole too.

 

[Pugs]

He was blowing smoke. I had at least 10 friends apply at the same time I did and only 2 of us got accepted. All would have been competitive now based on the applicant backgrounds I read on this site. Further, there was no reapplying if you got turned down - 1 appeal of the denial if you could show where a mistake was made in the processing of your application.

OCS has gotten easier with all the political correctness and the pussification of America. I have no doubt my AOCS was easier than the guys who went through 10 years before me.

Red flag? Black flag? What are those? The DIs didn't give a shit if it was 100 degrees with 100% humidity. Well maybe they would PT us in the mud pit under the air conditioners to keep us cool. And then PT us some more because our uniforms were now dirty.

Our 2 hour block of drill was 1+45 of PT and 0+15 of marching.

Ever have a DI at 2100 take a pair of scissors to all your khaki shirts to show you exactly where the military crease was supposed to go, then PT you the next morning from 0700 the next morning until the NEX opened (so you could buy new ones ) because you were out of uniform?

Did anyone ever leave their rifle in an unlocked locker, have it disassembled by a DI with the pieces buried in different locations in the bushes surrounding the barracks? And then get PTed for hours everyday for weeks because their rifle was missing pieces? Or PTed because he was out after curfew with a flashlight looking for the pieces? Or because he was in a dirty uniform from digging in the bushes looking for the pieces?

These were normal occurrences at AOCS. Each happened to at least one candidate in every class.

Flight school was different back then too. They didn't care how many flunked out. NFOs had about a 25% winging rate and pilots were about 40%.

I'm not saying it is not still tough to get through OCS but it is not as difficult as it was in the AOCS days. Boot camp is easier on the enlisted side too. It is more of a function of what society expects and will accept. People now days will not accept the OCS and boot camps of yesterday. Mentally what is tough today was the norm yesterday. And what is unacceptable today was tough yesterday. This is a direct reflection of the U.S. society as a whole too.

I'm going to quote your entire, well written post simply to say "reverend" Brother Johnson .... AOCS 09-87 and I saw everything that you said occur in my era as well (is five years later really an era change?). There were 18 applicants for the three slots in the quarter I applied from my district. We started the class with 42 and commissioned 24. Not so say some didn't get commissioned later but there were numerous DOR's and several attrites. AOCS for us (because of Xmas holidays) was 16 weeks and we completed all AI academic, survival and OCS training in that time. It was hard, but like most things proper motivation, attitude and desire would get you through.

They actually drafted jet guys out of my VT-10 class. Four of them, all attrited before they ever got to 86, Three more dropped for performance and one was killed in a T-2 midair. Winged 12. No idea what prop attrition was like. Those guys went to Mather and dropped off the face of the earth.

I find it very hard to believe that OCS today is as hard as AOCS was twenty years ago.