Landing On Carriers

[TurnandBurn55]

No AoA indexers in the back. I can reference AoA based on aircraft weight and airspeed... on-speed at max trap with full flaps is about 136 knots, subtract 1.5 knots for every 1K below max trap.

Usually I just use that during landing checks to sanity check with the pilot that the AoA indexers aren't AFU. Otherwise, nah... from a WSO perspective, my contract with the pilot is to make sure he doesn't get dangerous (or foolish).

Low and slow correct the low then the slow. My best indicator as to whether he's fixing that will still be VSI.

 

[nittany03]

Do you still use the AOA indexer or does the HUD tell you all that with the velocity vector?

Not all jets have HUDs. Not all jets with HUDs have velocity vectors. T-45Cs and Hornets are the only VV-equipped carrier aircraft. T-45As have no VV. Prowlers and S-3s have no HUD, nor do E-2s or C-2s.

Further, the velocity vector is a trend indicator ONLY and of very limited use when you roll out in the groove. About all it's good for at that point is if you see it move significantly, it's telling you "hey dummy, scan VSI!" Scan behind the boat is Meatball, Lineup, AOA, repeat. Trying to fly the VV will have Paddles breathing down your neck in short order.

Low and slow correct the low then the slow. My best indicator as to whether he's fixing that will still be VSI.

High and fast, fix the fast then the high, never lead a low, always lead a high, never center a high ball in close . . .

And just for the record, I have the same whopping number of traps as Fly Navy, so take the above FWIW . . .

 

[JIMMY]

wow u only make 10 traps in T-45s? i guess i just always thought ud get a lot more practice...

 

[Fly Navy]

wow u only make 10 traps in T-45s? i guess i just always thought ud get a lot more practice...

14 FCLP flights before the boat. 10 traps, 4 touch and go's to qual at the boat.

 

[Junior]

Not all jets have HUDs. Not all jets with HUDs have velocity vectors. T-45Cs and Hornets are the only VV-equipped carrier aircraft. T-45As have no VV. Prowlers and S-3s have no HUD, nor do E-2s or C-2s.

Further, the velocity vector is a trend indicator ONLY and of very limited use when you roll out in the groove. About all it's good for at that point is if you see it move significantly, it's telling you "hey dummy, scan VSI!" Scan behind the boat is Meatball, Lineup, AOA, repeat. Trying to fly the VV will have Paddles breathing down your neck in short order.

Agree with everything Nittany. There still is a divide here among instructors on how to "use" the velocity vector. Some will say to not look at it in the groove, some teach its use a lot. I think the best advice came from one who made me realize the velocity vector is essentially VSI. He said you don't place it anywhere on the deck, but use it as a VSI. But remember, I have even less traps than Fly and Nittany.

 

[Fly Navy]

Agree with everything Nittany. There still is a divide here among instructors on how to "use" the velocity vector. Some will say to not look at it in the groove, some teach its use a lot. I think the best advice came from one who made me realize the velocity vector is essentially VSI. He said you don't place it anywhere on the deck, but use it as a VSI. But remember, I have even less traps than Fly and Nittany.

Yeah, the VV is pretty money for trend information and as a general VSI. It's a powerful tool. Just don't become a cripple on it. For example, I would subconsciously use the VV for line-up control. Didn't even realize I was doing it. The first couple of passes at the boat, you realize that doesn't work You break the habit pretty quickly.

 

[bunk22]

As a former COD guy for 8 years with a few traps under my belt, I've always used the same technique that I learned in advanced, flying the mighty T-2C.......meatball, line-up, AOA. With the COD, it was very rudder demanding, ailerond demanding and power demanding. There were those times when you just got into a groove and not much movement was required but those seemed to be far and few between. I think the E-2 can use its AFCS on approach to help with rudder/ball control. Maybe one of them can correct me on this but that would have been nice in the COD. I flew so many passes (boat and mostly FCLP's) that I didn't notice it the last few years but it would have been nice regardless.

To the original posters question, all carrier aviators start out with FCLPs at an airfield with a carrier box and the lense. It certainly helps with flying the pattern, hitting your numbers, flying the ball, wave-offs, etc. However, FCLP's and boat are two different beasts especially at night. My last night trap was back in 02 but I recall the pain at night and the few current and former jet/E2 bubba's on this site know exactly what I speak of.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Yeah, the VV is pretty money for trend information and as a general VSI. It's a powerful tool. Just don't become a cripple on it. For example, I would subconsciously use the VV for line-up control. Didn't even realize I was doing it. The first couple of passes at the boat, you realize that doesn't work You break the habit pretty quickly.

Well, there's gouge put out in the fleet about VV placement at the boat, but it can be bad juju. There was a mishap a little while ago where a Hornet driver was shooting a standby approach and was putting his waterline symbol where he'd normally put the VV... ouch...

 

[Fly Navy]

Well, there's gouge put out in the fleet about VV placement at the boat, but it can be bad juju. There was a mishap a little while ago where a Hornet driver was shooting a standby approach and was putting his waterline symbol where he'd normally put the VV... ouch...

Yep, know the gouge, our LSOs talked to us about it to make us aware, but to not use it for CQ (T-45s).

 

[Brett327]

He's lucky I was out of town this weekend.

Brett

 

[SemperApollo]

High and fast, fix the fast then the high, never lead a low, always lead a high, never center a high ball in close . . .

And just for the record, I have the same whopping number of traps as Fly Navy, so take the above FWIW . . .

Understand the high and fast...understand the ball in close....but what does leading refer to?

Sorry if its common knowledge, but the closest I get to what you guys do is using a VASI at 60 knots.

 

[Fly Navy]

Understand the high and fast...understand the ball in close....but what does leading refer to?

Sorry if its common knowledge, but the closest I get to what you guys do is using a VASI at 60 knots.

Leading a high: Slowing or stopping your correction before the ball gets to the datums.

Never leading a low: Let the ball go through the datums before you slow or stop your ascent.

Keeps you alive

 

[nittany03]

^What Fly said. To expound (fleet guys correct me if I'm AFU), given that the ball can be off either above or below the datums, you want it to be above if you can't be spot on, which is your first choice. Your hook will catch a wire as long as you have a STABILIZED ball on the lens. However Paddles does not like to see a low ball. Low balls lead to smacking into the back of the ship. So it is looked on poorly to fly down through glideslope, especially in the middle-in close as this makes you burble fodder.

So when correcting for a low, we are taught to drive the ball above the datums before correcting back, i.e. not leading it. This makes sure we get up there. Leading a low give the chance of hamfisting it back below the datums, which means you're as screwed up as before with less chance to fix. Again, burble fodder.

Consequently, if you have a high, you want to fix it, sure, but gently so as not fly through down. So you do lead a high.

 

[Fly Navy]

Consequently, if you have a high, you want to fix it, sure, but gently so as not fly through down. So you do lead a high.

OK (HCDAW)

 

[TurnandBurn55]

However Paddles does not like to see a low ball.

Who does??

Better off working high, cause once you hit the burble you're going to feel a little sinking action regardless. Can't replicate that at the field.