Keeping pilots in cockpits

[Ex Rigger]

Biography:
I am a freshman at ERAU and a 4/C MIDN. I am going to fly Super Hornets for the US Navy, and probably shoot down some MiGs/Sukhois some day...

Wow....when I grow up I want to be just like you!!

 

[Shakey]

First of all, I never said I was a fighter pilot...yet. Second, I still have fighting spirit. Anyone can, not just pilots. Humans have something that goes beyond the calculations and coordination involved in flying/fighting an aircraft. UAVs are not alive and don't feel. Personally, I think something critically important is missing there.

 

[bunk22]

First of all, I never said I was a fighter pilot...yet.

No one ever claimed you did. You did say this though:

Us pilots have something a UAV/computer will never have: fighting spirit.

You either meant U.S. pilots or us pilots, referring to yourself as a pilot. At least it looks that way.

Second, I still have fighting spirit.

You go get em Slugger!!!

 

[KBayDog]

First of all, I never said I was a fighter pilot...yet. Second, I still have fighting spirit. Anyone can, not just pilots. Humans have something that goes beyond the calculations and coordination involved in flying/fighting an aircraft. UAVs are not alive and don't feel. Personally, I think something critically important is missing there.

UAVs are no different than manned ("personed?") aircraft. No, a UAV is not alive and does not feel. Good observation. But guess what? That's no different from every aircraft from the T-34 to the JSF; from the TH-57 to the MV-22. Each - manned or unmanned - are nothing more than hunks of metal with bunch of computers and voodoo magic, yet each requires humans to operate them.

Do yourself a favor - tell these guys or these guys that they do not have "fighting spirit."

Let me know how it works out for you.

 

[invertedflyer]

I think that anyone could argue that its harder to make ethical decisions in a fast-paced combat environment from some shed hundreds of miles away. You don't have the same situation awareness than if you have two heads on swivels operating comms, lightning pods, and the like. It all goes to Situational Awareness... if you're not literally, ON STATION, you're not going to have that edge. As far as this sci-fi idea of controlling sections of drones from the cockpit... hmm... maybe some more task-dividing for our WSOs? don't ask me... All I know is that the only wings I've earned are in a couple flight sims and my meager civilian aviation experiences. You REAL FIGHTER PILOTS out there know whats goin' on and you sure as hell don't want to loose your jobs flying pointy nosed jets... and If I have the distinct pleasure of joining you one day maybe we can sit down to beers and scoff and poke fun at these figures that advocate UCAVs. -- My personal two cents is that the need for flesh and blood pilots in the AO will be around for a LONG time.

 

[KBayDog]

...if you're not literally, ON STATION, you're not going to have that edge.

What is "ON STATION?"

"ON STATION" is entirely subjective - not unlike the definition of the "Rear Area." To the rifleman standing a post, the platoon commander could be considered "In the Rear." The Motor T bubba who brought the platoon to the fight would be considered "In the Rear" by the rifle platoon commander. To the Motor T guru, a brig guard in the states is certainly "In the Rear."

The same goes for "ON STATION." Is the B-52 at 25K "ON STATION" when compared to the -46 in the hot LZ? What about the F-22 as compared to the Huey?

Just some food for thought.

(Go ahead and get the 'In the Rear' jokes out of your system )

 

[bunk22]

I think that anyone could argue that its harder to make ethical decisions in a fast-paced combat environment from some shed hundreds of miles away. You don't have the same situation awareness than if you have two heads on swivels operating comms, lightning pods, and the like. It all goes to Situational Awareness... if you're not literally, ON STATION, you're not going to have that edge. As far as this sci-fi idea of controlling sections of drones from the cockpit... hmm... maybe some more task-dividing for our WSOs? don't ask me... All I know is that the only wings I've earned are in a couple flight sims and my meager civilian aviation experiences. You REAL FIGHTER PILOTS out there know whats goin' on and you sure as hell don't want to loose your jobs flying pointy nosed jets... and If I have the distinct pleasure of joining you one day maybe we can sit down to beers and scoff and poke fun at these figures that advocate UCAVs. -- My personal two cents is that the need for flesh and blood pilots in the AO will be around for a LONG time.

Unfortunetly for your analysis, UAV's are already being used in a role to take it to the bad guy, at least in a minor role. Good buddy of mine is running the show out of Quatar. His group hit the bad guys in Pakistan not to long ago. It is what it is and the future is going to be UAV.......years from now those aircraft going "downtown" might just be unmanned. Saves the lives of our pilots and kills the bad guys. I'm not a fighter guy but even if I were, it wouldn't matter, my flying days are coming to an end in the next few years so it doesn't effect me as much as those wanting to be the future war fighters and aviators for the Navy and MC. So I suppose I take a more callous view of the situation.

 

[nocal80]

UAVs are no different than manned ("personed?") aircraft. No, a UAV is not alive and does not feel. Good observation. But guess what? That's no different from every aircraft from the T-34 to the JSF; from the TH-57 to the MV-22. Each - manned or unmanned - are nothing more than hunks of metal with bunch of computers and voodoo magic, yet each requires humans to operate them.

I gotta disagree with ya there man, and I think most pilots would. Ok, UAV's and manned aircraft are both machines, but there is not someone sitting in a UAV with their ass on the line. UAV's are effective and have there place, but I'll state the obvious here. flying is fvckin awesome, and I can't imagine piloting a UAV is anything close to the same thing.

 

[Shakey]

YOU SAID IT! Now for another morale dilemma: With UAVs, we do not have to risk the life of a pilot to complete a mission. In other words, we can kill other people without having to worry about losing any of our own. Now don't get me wrong, I know that war is never fair, but that almost seems too easy. By the way, flyin a jet at "Mach 2 with your hair on fire" is just really freakin cool!

 

[BigRed389]

The Air Force already plans to fight by whacking dudes who don't even know we're around.

Not much of a real stretch to start fighting in UAVs. Minimize risk to us, maximize damage to them. Optimize the balance, and that's the game plan that'll work, right?

 

[Shakey]

I know what you mean. Like I said war isn't supposed to be fair. We're getting to the point that we don't even need a pilot in trailor to fly a UAV; it takes off, fly's it's mission, and returns home all by itself. It just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Ex Rigger]

it takes off, fly's it's mission, and returns home all by itself.

No, it doesn't.

 

[bunk22]

By the way, flyin a jet at "Mach 2 with your hair on fire" is just really freakin cool!

Okay turbo, you're really making this to easy...........but I'm going to refrain

 

[nocal80]

No, it doesn't.

no, really, it does. didn't you see stealth?

 

[Brett327]

YOU SAID IT! Now for another morale dilemma: With UAVs, we do not have to risk the life of a pilot to complete a mission. In other words, we can kill other people without having to worry about losing any of our own. Now don't get me wrong, I know that war is never fair, but that almost seems too easy. By the way, flyin a jet at "Mach 2 with your hair on fire" is just really freakin cool!

So, would you have the same concerns about Tomahawks, or standoff weapons? Make no mistake, the goal of war is to make things easy on yourself and hard on your opponent. I don't follow your logic.

Brett