Jon Stewart

[doubledown]

oh, about the bush/gore election, I actually lived in Palm Beach County at the time and voted on the "confusing" ballots. Those people who messed up were freaking morons. It had an arrow bigger than the name of the candidate pointing to the exact hole to punch. I especially like SNL's version of Al Gore and that palm beach fiasco.

 

[perchul]

As a South Florida resident I can vouch for Doubledowns's statment, the elderly of South Florida for the most part really are morons; since they have the most power though they'll always have a vote and I can't really argue taking a vote away from some segment. If anyone doubts the idiocy of these people though go drive around Palm Beach or Martin County, believe me a day of punching yourself in the balls is more pleasurable then driving in these areas.

 

[kimphil]

Originally posted by doubledown
FYI to all those arguing about the ballots. We live in a Republic, not a democracy. We vote, the votes are counted and sent to the electorial college who can vote either direction. If Bush got more votes, and they felt Gore had more of a following, then they could vote for Gore. I guess they aren't supposed to do that, but....

In a true democracy, every vote would count, kind of like in high school government elections. Which, it really doesn't matter (in SGA, or US Gov't.) because it's all a popularity contest anyway. How many Americans actually do research before going to vote? You know there is a reason presidential candidates wear red white a blue (even if it is subtle); its for those saps sitting in front of the TV and subconciously they think this guy is more patriotic that this guy. The system is flawed, and anyone should be able to tell that by the fact that there is only 2 parties.

Maybe people should have to take a test before voting to make sure they know enough about the candidates.

FYI, we live in a democracy, not a republic. Every publicly elected office is decided by popular vote, with the exception of the President. In that aspect only is America a republic.

The system is flawed, I agree. America, as the founding fathers envisioned, was supposed to be a republic. Now we're somewhere between a republic and a functional democracy. We're a malfunctioning democracy.

As far as testing voters, we used to do that. Funny thing is, they only made African Americans take it and they always seemed to fail.

 

[Jaxs170]

Kimphil:

I saw the results of those so called recounts months after the election. If I recall correctly, after doing the tabulations fifteen ways to Sunday, they determinded that Bush still won under most of the scenarios, and Gore under a few.

The Supreme Court didn't certify any vote totals of any sort. They examined the constitutionality of the recounts (meaning the ones after the one Gore got the first time to which he was entitled to) and put a stop to them b/c they were unconstitutional.

And don't think we have forgotten about Gore's sleezy attempts to disenfranchise the service members serving overseas b/c he knew their votes would hurt him! Sending his goons to the places where their ballots were being counted w/ specific instructions on how to protest them so there would be a good chance the ballot would be thrown out, give me a break.

 

[doubledown]

What I meant by the Republic statement was in reference to the presidency elections. You should buy a book called 'A World of Ideas' by Chris Rohmann. It talks about theories, concepts, beliefs ect... but one thing it has in it is a section on democracy. There are over 10 different types of democracy. The US comes close but does not fall into a true democracy. So I guess to say we're between would be an accurate statement.

and purchul, you think palm beach county is bad, i now live in fort lauderdale, It's worse, same number of old people, just more crazy people in addition to the old people.

 

[olpa9901]

the funny thing is, is that old people should be used to punch cards...it is what drove busines back in their heyday. There is no excuse for voter confusion when all thruought the 50-60's, people used punch cards on a daily basis.

 

[kimphil]

Originally posted by Jaxs170
Kimphil:

I saw the results of those so called recounts months after the election. If I recall correctly, after doing the tabulations fifteen ways to Sunday, they determinded that Bush still won under most of the scenarios, and Gore under a few.

The Supreme Court didn't certify any vote totals of any sort. They examined the constitutionality of the recounts (meaning the ones after the one Gore got the first time to which he was entitled to) and put a stop to them b/c they were unconstitutional.

And don't think we have forgotten about Gore's sleezy attempts to disenfranchise the service members serving overseas b/c he knew their votes would hurt him! Sending his goons to the places where their ballots were being counted w/ specific instructions on how to protest them so there would be a good chance the ballot would be thrown out, give me a break.

Yes, Bush won under most scenarios including the four county recount scenarios that Gore actually advocated. But statewide recounts would have favored Gore. I'm not arguing about the outcome of the election in Florida in 2000, I'm talking about the voters' intent. Looking at a punchcard with two point hanging chad and throwing it out may be necessary and acceptable to calculate who won, but we can't ignore that voter's intent. In retrospect it seems clear that the majority of voters in Florida statewide chose Gore over Bush.

As far as Gore disenfrancise that's crap. Gore didn't want to include overseas ballots that arrived after the election because there was no to verify whether they voted before or after election day (I think Florida allows absentee ballots to be counted up to two weeks after the election). Anyway, I believe those votes were counted anyway and didn't affect the outcome.

Where did you hear the story about Gore's goons going down to Florida and protesting? The so called "liberal" media? I heard the same story, only it was Republican congressional aides "vacationing" in Florida that were doing the protesting.

Doubledown, you've got to help me out here, if you and I start agreeing, this thread loses its entertainment value!

 

[Daedalus]

I'll mix it up.
The electorial college ALWAYS votes the way of the popular vote.

 

[orthaj]

I just hope that the presidential election of 2000 was a statistical and historical anomaly that isn't likely to repeat itself for another 226 years. I really don't want this nation of ours to begin to mirror a banana republic. If we allow our elected officials to get in the habits of constantly impeaching presidents they don't agree with, going to the supreme court on multiple occasions to verify hanging chads from ballots and recalling democratically elected governors and replacing them with movie stars who can draw a crowd we start ourselves down a path that more than a few third world countries have been up and down.

 

[doubledown]

Doubledown, you've got to help me out here, if you and I start agreeing, this thread loses its entertainment value!

I totally disagree with this statement! It couldn't be further from the truth. How's that kimphil?

 

[kimphil]

Orthaj,

The 2000 election was more than a statistical anomoly; it was a reflection of country divided straight down the middle. And there is the very real possibility that Americans will be just as divided in 2004. Florida had the unfortunate luck of being the state that was split down the middle with an inadequate voting system. Could be another state in 2004 that causes the next voting crisis.

The solution--we should invite election monitors from Zimbabwe.

Doubledown, are you asking for a dance-off?

 

[olpa9901]

yup, and i'm sure the media will have some great one liner describing it much like "indecision 2000" or something similar. yay for sensational news.

 

[room5047]

UNITED STATES PRESIDENT - OFFICIAL BALLOT 2000 -- CORRECTION, 2004

Please cast your vote for one (1) of the candidates below:

1) Old, wealthy, white, Christian male who utilizes vague, grandiose rhetoric and is "tough on crime" (Democrat) _____

2) Old, wealthy, white, Christian male who utilizes vague, grandiose rhetoric and is "tough on crime" (Republican) _____

Palm Beach Residents, please cast your vote for one of the candidates below:

1) Pat Buchanan _____


You expect a clear majority mandate from this?... May as well have a national referendum on "Coke or Pepsi?" To me, it's all the same malted battery acid.

 

[psrogers]

Once again the Wiz creates a massive strand. Nice Henry V quote Wiz.

 

[ParrotHead]

Since when did fighter pilots involve themselves so deeply in politics? Must be this "fine mesh" going around making sure every new SNA has a princeton degree, a 3.924 GPA, and a good tea set before they can get jets. Gone are the days of Chuck Yeager and and the cowboy lifestyle of fighter pilots when all you would do is talk planes. Granted, trying to expand your intellect is good, but arguing like this is senseless.

Bottom line is that we're all really here because we want to strap into a super-sonic fighter and blast out of the sky some poor lummox dumb enough to engage us...right?

-ParrotHead (the Jimmy Buffet fan who doesn't care about Jimmy's politically liberal views...besides, what are manatees good for anyway?)