I got to an ejection seat aircraft very late in my career (after 16 years and thousands of helo hours) and it took an effort to translate out of the "ride it down" mentality. You have to make a commitment to the handle before you walk to the bird.
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Jet Catches Fire Aboard USS Carl Vinson
- Thread starter ea6bflyr
- Start date
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Yep. Having cycled through chutes to helos back to chutes, to ejection seats, and now back to chutes with a long/cumbersome bailout, I've had to reset my "criteria for GTFO" more than once.
Know on the ground what altitude/vsi combo you are comfortable starting bailout/ejection at.
Even this can change within an aircraft. Technically, with the new PSE chutes, I've had to bump the numbers up 500 feet, as you could jump at 500 with the old chutes, and 1000 is now the minimum for the PSE.
From what I was told, it's a better chute overall, with a lower descent rate, but takes longer to get full deployment.
Know on the ground what altitude/vsi combo you are comfortable starting bailout/ejection at.
Even this can change within an aircraft. Technically, with the new PSE chutes, I've had to bump the numbers up 500 feet, as you could jump at 500 with the old chutes, and 1000 is now the minimum for the PSE.
From what I was told, it's a better chute overall, with a lower descent rate, but takes longer to get full deployment.
Just to clear up a point, are the above min alts based on 'bail out', or ejection (not familiar w/ PSE)?? If bail out, I understand. If ejection, we've been ejecting successfully on catapult launches (80' ASL) for 50+/- years with Martin Baker, Douglas RAPEC & newer seats. Just wonderin'.:watching3
BzB :sing_125:
Given MB is an E-2 bubba, bailout. I have no idea about fleet a/c ejection seat envelopes, though I remember the T-6 was 0/0 rated. In P-3 land minimum recommend altitude for bailout is 3000 and should not be attempted below 1000. NATOPS doesn't say what spawned these minimum numbers.
Much like ejection envelopes, if it's so bad you have to leave and waited below the min you might as well give it a shot. :0
It should be noted that all "0/0" ejection seat ratings are predicated on a third "0", that being "0 sink rate" (neg. VS). A -sink rate will increase min. ejection altitude to >0' depending upon rate of sink. :idea_125:
BzB:sleep_125
Excellent point. AOB also has a minimizing effect on the ejection envelope.
I'm guessing that's why the 1000 ft is a should instead of a shall.
If you were in the final turn in a 0/0 seat in the T-6 and on parameters (30 AOB, 6-800 FPM VSI), you were out of the envelope. Good luck was all we were told by our aviation physiologists and IPs.
All you had to do there is level the wings (or dump, suck, point, feather for the T34 types). The real shitters are when you depart it close to the ground and it shoots your ass into the trees, or strangely enough, a ground ejection with any tipping is something rather uncosmic which puts you out of the envelope in a hurry.
S-3 in the mid '80s. Dumbshit pilot and shit hot NFO in the copilot's seat. They are on a back in the saddle flight after some post cruise leave. The pilot is running through a stall series, or rather approach to stall, as full stalling jets for fun isn't done so often. He turns it over to the NFO to fly some high alpha stuff but isn't satisfied with the aggressiveness of the NFO. Did I say the guy in the copilot's seat was a NFO, as in not a pilot? So dumbshit pilot (a nugget who joined mid cruise) takes the aircraft to show him how it is done. He promptly horses the aircraft into a departure and post stall gyrations. He thinks it is spinning. The S-3 had never been spun. Test pilots couldn't make it spin and everyone knew that. The pilot puts in anti spin controls and the aircraft tightens into a spiral. The NFO is yelling at him, telling him it isn't spinning, telling him to let go of the controls. Dumbshit is frozen on the controls. So, going through 10K the NFO saves their lives. Once the dumbshit's hands are removed from the stick via Douglas Escapac, the aircraft levels out and flies for quite some time, eventually "landing" wings level, shallow rate of decent, into the ocean. All was witnessed by a retired USAF pilot flying a Lear jet providing run in targeting for SWOs. The Lear called in the SAR before they ejected because he saw it go from post stall gyrations to the tight spiral and figured the pilot had it all wrong. The Lear flew form on the crewless Viking until it settled into the water to ensure safety. Both crew were rescued within minutes, no harm. If ever there is proof of poor monkey skills it is when the plane flies just fine after the pilot has been ejected.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
or a helicopter pilot.
Well... I've refused the ride a couple times. Once, discussed previously, in an early A4, in a heavy rainstorm, Tonkin Gulf, low fuel state, and an inop windshield wiper, ...hence NO (repeat NO) forward visibility.
Ship's skipper made me an offer (LOL!!)...controlled ejection alongside...or shoot a "CCA"...with paddles on the platform being the "CC"...paddles did an exemplary job at talking me down...another incident related here: (Several years old now...)
http://a4skyhawk.org/2d/tins/tins-glider_ron-marron.htm
Each circumstance above was such that ample time was available to execute a different plan of attack...but wouldn't hesitate to bail when necessary...fire, LOC, a/c breaking up...
And once in a supermoon, after the pilot ejects, the plane lands itself.