What can I say? Some people just bring out the best in me.
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IFS/NFO's
- Thread starter FlyinRock
- Start date
What can I say? Some people just bring out the best in me.
IFS is an important program, to be sure. But I've gotten the impression that sometimes the instructors mistake their place, thinking they are the "gatekeepers" to flight school. They are merely evaluators taking notes on a student's performance, not the salty dog at the tip of the spear with gold wings in pocket waiting to give to the student.
Sort of like the Corpsman or nurse who takes a person's vitals at sick call. Your job is important, but you are NOT the doctor.
Sort of like the Corpsman or nurse who takes a person's vitals at sick call. Your job is important, but you are NOT the doctor.
dimlight85
bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
As has been the case with my instructor, I feel like he needs to be concentrating more on instructing and less on evaluating. I get the feeling that he thinks he is exactly as Otto decribes, a "gatekeeper".
dimlight85
bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
UPDATE: IFS Complete! Changed instructors at the midway point and everything improved almost 100%
If you get the opportunity to fill out a course critique, be sure to note that. Higher-ups can't fix what they don't know.
Yep...if you feel you got below-standard instruction, say so in the course critique. But be specific and constructive. "My instructor sucked" doesn't tell us anything. Was he too aggressive? Too laid-back? Teach you unsafe procedures? Touch you in your bathing suit area? What?
That being said, you should get used to the idea now that not every instructor between you and your wings is the world's greatest teacher. Sometimes you will get stuck with an asshole; and he may be your on-wing, so you'll be stuck with him for a while. The instructors know who they are, and the students know who they are. But stuck with him you are, and unless he does something dangerously unsafe or abusive (and I mean like he's throwing PCL's at you in-flight or calling you racial epithets) there's nothing to be gained by complaining. I learned that the hard way. All you can do is show up for the brief ready to nail your knowledge items, learn what you can from him, and pray you move on to a better instructor soon.
That being said, you should get used to the idea now that not every instructor between you and your wings is the world's greatest teacher. Sometimes you will get stuck with an asshole; and he may be your on-wing, so you'll be stuck with him for a while. The instructors know who they are, and the students know who they are. But stuck with him you are, and unless he does something dangerously unsafe or abusive (and I mean like he's throwing PCL's at you in-flight or calling you racial epithets) there's nothing to be gained by complaining. I learned that the hard way. All you can do is show up for the brief ready to nail your knowledge items, learn what you can from him, and pray you move on to a better instructor soon.
This is all very interesting. Twenty-four years ago as I was completing my final critique after getting winged, I (and many other NFOs) wrote that we felt it would be beneficial to have some pre-VT10 syllabus that gave us some stick time as we thought that would equate to better air sense, or at least more comfort in the aircraft. As it was, the first syllabus flight was pretty intense (mine was in IMC) and everyone felt way behind the power curve. After five T-34 flights you needed to pick whether you wanted to go P-3s or TACAIR. I'm sure many chose P-3s just to get out of there ASAP. We were not allowed to touch the stick. Like I said on a previous thread, a middie on a CORTRAMID fam flight got more stick time on that one flight than we did for the whole NFO syllabus. We had nothing like an on-wing, so you really couldn't gauge if you were improving. We had some of the worst SERGRADS who would pay lip service to Crew Concept and then do whatever they wanted to do, especially on the Spin hop. I thought some of them were full of crap then, but chalked it up to me not knowing any better. The reality is they had no desire to be there (they did not volunteer), and their CRM, Crew Concept, whatever just plain sucked. Not their fault so much as they never flew missions in a multi-place cockpit as anything other than a student themselves.
After a few highly visible mishaps where the B/N, RIO, ECMO, or whoever was tweaking and geeking instead of co-piloting, CNATRA decided it might be prudent to invest some time in getting SNFOs some more air sense with hands-on stick time and started a pilot appreciation syllabus of a few flights that has morphed into IFS. I wish I could have done that. To possibly get to solo is icing on the cake.
You can learn something from EVERY flight, especially early on, and EVERY flight can kill you.
If a SNFO openly verbalized his opinion that IFS was a waste of time because he'd never get to actually fly, I would have to agree, because in his case it is a waste of time, since he clearly knows everything about everything. Perhaps he should be shown the door and save everyone lots of time and effort.
Funny how things go full circle. 25 years ago we didn't have it and wanted it; now that they've got it, some of them want to get rid of it.
After a few highly visible mishaps where the B/N, RIO, ECMO, or whoever was tweaking and geeking instead of co-piloting, CNATRA decided it might be prudent to invest some time in getting SNFOs some more air sense with hands-on stick time and started a pilot appreciation syllabus of a few flights that has morphed into IFS. I wish I could have done that. To possibly get to solo is icing on the cake.
You can learn something from EVERY flight, especially early on, and EVERY flight can kill you.
If a SNFO openly verbalized his opinion that IFS was a waste of time because he'd never get to actually fly, I would have to agree, because in his case it is a waste of time, since he clearly knows everything about everything. Perhaps he should be shown the door and save everyone lots of time and effort.
Funny how things go full circle. 25 years ago we didn't have it and wanted it; now that they've got it, some of them want to get rid of it.
dimlight85
bears, beets, battlestar galactica.
Switching instructors was the best thing I could have done for myself and pretty much the only thing I could control in the situation. Up to that point I just thought I was horrible at everything I touched in the airplane. After finally getting to fly with instructors who actually instructed rather than constantly evaluated, I started to look forward to my flights.
Like was mentioned before, both types are here in the TRACOM. You will fly with both, and need to get used to dealing with both. Your time in IFS hopefully helped you learn how to do this.
NVACE69
New Member
From IFS Director!
We have been doing the same syllabus since mid 2007! We tried for 3.5 years at doing a special SNFO syllabus with only minimal benefit in Primary. The bottom line is too many SNFOs are attriting out of Primary...a huge waste of money!
In 2006 a study was done for process improvement wrt IFS...standardization and level of difficulty needed to be raised (the bar).
Let's bring a bit of reality to the IFS Screening process for all you misguided individuals....we use an approved Jeppesen Private Pilot Syllabus (Civilian) taught by (oh my God) civilian flight instructors who understand the civilian standards, and we use the civilian grading system...
Honestly...if you are not cutting it at a civilian level...what makes you think you are going to make in through Primary...do you actually think military flight training is easier????
If you don't like it...come by my office I have blank DOR forms...get out of the way and let someone who wants to be here through....
You are getting 25 flight hours of training before you get in the real game…
Buck up...work hard...and show us you want those Wings of Gold!
We have been doing the same syllabus since mid 2007! We tried for 3.5 years at doing a special SNFO syllabus with only minimal benefit in Primary. The bottom line is too many SNFOs are attriting out of Primary...a huge waste of money!
In 2006 a study was done for process improvement wrt IFS...standardization and level of difficulty needed to be raised (the bar).
Let's bring a bit of reality to the IFS Screening process for all you misguided individuals....we use an approved Jeppesen Private Pilot Syllabus (Civilian) taught by (oh my God) civilian flight instructors who understand the civilian standards, and we use the civilian grading system...
Honestly...if you are not cutting it at a civilian level...what makes you think you are going to make in through Primary...do you actually think military flight training is easier????
If you don't like it...come by my office I have blank DOR forms...get out of the way and let someone who wants to be here through....
You are getting 25 flight hours of training before you get in the real game…
Buck up...work hard...and show us you want those Wings of Gold!
NVACE69
New Member
Awesome avatar.
submarinerssbn
New Member
I am going to IFS soon (as snfo) and alot of the gouge that people are telling me is you don't need to study, don't over think it, it's easy, etc. i kinda think of it like any other gouge, take it with a grain of salt, so much changes so fast around here what was good for one individual might not be good for another.
the way i see it is if you wanna be good at your trade, then you'll learn everything you can, it's a chance to develop the study habits etc. i figured you'd need to get through the pipeline, i am actually glad i did'nt come here with a ppl cause it will give me a chance to get prepared. if you have a strong foundation of the basics then you'll probably be sucessful at building on that and understanding later on.
can't speak for everyone but i know a couple of us who are trying and who take it serious. don't give up on all of us.
the way i see it is if you wanna be good at your trade, then you'll learn everything you can, it's a chance to develop the study habits etc. i figured you'd need to get through the pipeline, i am actually glad i did'nt come here with a ppl cause it will give me a chance to get prepared. if you have a strong foundation of the basics then you'll probably be sucessful at building on that and understanding later on.
can't speak for everyone but i know a couple of us who are trying and who take it serious. don't give up on all of us.
And that's absolutely horrible advice. Half of the guys we get in PRB's every week are IFS failures. You might be that one guy out of a hundred who can coast through, but I doubt it. Study your ass off for every flight and every test.
Further proof, if further proof were needed, that the abso-fucking-lutely last person you should EVER ask for advice in the Program is another Ensign.