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IFS Costs $751.25 to member
- Thread starter fc2spyguy
- Start date
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
What the webmaster said... Look at it this way - when you gripe about how much the sodas cost in the machine, look up at the TV's in the gym and know it was worth it...
Well, does anyone know which pot of money reimbursing Lt's would come from? That was basically my question. For all I know that stuff just comes from DFAS in Kansas or some place. Whose budget does it show up on. I know that the transpo costs are shouldered by the base.
I think the "heartache" comes from the fact that they are effectively taking advantage of LT's because they don't have enough experience to know what's going on. And, federal regulations that were written by Congress are not being followed. If one of your Marines or sailors wasn't recieving the correct pay, or DLA or whatever, that would be a discrepancy you would want to have somebody fix. One thing you wouldn't do, is tell him or her to be happy with the fact that they got a free TMO move and not whine about the missing DLA (for instance) because that is something they rate according to the regulations. But hey, they are also getting free career skills that they can take into the private sector, aren't they? So, its all good.
Oh, and when you do IFS at TBS you do still have to muster every morning, so going from the muster to a bus that drives you to the airport to fly and then back again is not a bad deal. Definitely worth the $1000 over the two or more months IFS takes.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Do you know if they used to provide transportation? I'm not talking what your buddies that are 6 months ahead of you in the program said, I'm talking about when IFS first started. TBS is also not a good comparison, because there are more people doing IFS in P-Cola than TBS, and then there's the whole Marine mindset (especially post TBS).
Do I think that they need to provide adequate transportation? Yes. Do I think they should reimburse you if they don't? Yes. Do I think that the solution they came up with (or probably will in the future) is not going to be viewed as the best solution for the individual? Yes.
Here's the solution that I think's going to happen (or probably already did, and was eliminated because it was not cost effective): 3 Buses a day (morning, afternoon, and evening). A lot of sitting around at Mobile/Eglin/etc waiting. A lot of bitching from Ens/Lt's. Decide to drive. Less people use the bus, bus gets axed. They provide transportation and you don't utilize it (because you view it as inconveinent) they don't owe you anything. Did they have a bus to begin with (way back when) and axe it because it wasn't being used? I don't know. But I'd bet a paycheck that push comes to shove - that's what they're going to do vice reimburse you.
The pot of money is not bottomless. Especially when the Air Force asks for enough money to put a Bowflex in every Airman's room so he doesn't have to go to the gym if he doesn't want to.
Travel costs are usually borne by the unit that orders the member to travel. That's not always the case, some schools pay for students selected to attend. In any case, it's down at the unit level squadron, wing, school, etc. not big Navy. FYI DFAS is an accountant, not a source of money.
I agree with you 100% that the most likely course that will be taken is to provide buses etc and quite frankly if it is a viable means to accomplish the mission then that's the way to go. If in fact you are correct in your analysis of what happen prior, it is not the current students fault that Schools Command made a poor choice to cut the transportation due to low utilization, and yes it was a poor choice because it put them in the situation they are in today, which until someone can prove me wrong is in violation of directed requirements as approved within the MILPERSMAN and JFTR. In that whole situation is a lesson to all these young studs, if they choose to think it through.
I would be fine with 3 buses a day, but I also don't think that would be a likely outcome either. Right now I'm carpooling w/ my roommate, both of us end up sitting around the building for at least two to three hours a day. This isn't a bad thing, I manage to get all the studying done for the flights during this time period. What I would hate to see is a single but that leaves at 0600 and comes back departing mobile at 1700 after the last flight comes in. If that's the solution, I think the problem is better than the solution.
Maybe what you say is the solution that is presented, I think that probably it will be something like a bus that runs on a schedule ex: Departs P'cola at 0500, returns and departs at 0900, returns, departs again at 1300 departs Mobile at 1700, all times are representative but they give you an idea, but and this is a big BUT...If the system is departs P'cola at 0500 (or whenever) and returns at 1700 and YOU decide NOT to use the transportation that is YOUR decision you are not being forced into it. At that point all whining, griping, pissing and moaning is unwarranted. The fight is not to make the situation conform to your whims and desires, the fight is to be treated properly and equitably per regulations. So, no, the solution is not worse then the problem, unless you define the problem as being tied to your comfort and convenience.
I understand your point and applaud your efforts to help out the studs, but also understand there are 3 different IFS locations outside of PNS now, as well. So it's not just one bus going back and forth between MOB/BFM (where ever it is you guys go...I've never seen studs at BFM, but maybe I wasn't paying attention). So that's 3 different buses going to Eglin, MOB/BFM, and 1R8. Not sure how close Bay Minnette is to I-10 by road, but it's not that close by air, however you might be able to use the same bus for both stops. Now the bus needs to leave at 0430.
Bay Minette's about 25 minutes from I-10, about 40-50 minutes to Mobile.
RockySLP
New Member
I've been paying attention to this issue with great interest and it seems as if the dialogue is escalating. I certainly admire the effort on the part of disinterested retired officers. So for everyone who hasn't said it yet: thank you.
IFS suffers from some major problems. Although there seems to be a great deal of attention focused on the costs, that is only one of the issues.
There are inherent problems with standardization, oversight, and safety. Flight schools need to log hours in order to make money and they have every economic incentive to turn students out quickly. Crew rest is a non-existent concept.
The IFS atmosphere is not conducive to solving these problems. Students can receive pink sheets based on issues with the flight school...a business that can also unilaterally attrite them. No one wants to rock the boat, especially an ENS who has never heard of the JFTR.
This is going to be a serious concern when someone crashes a car on I-10 due to lack of sleep. Worse yet, one student might be driving around with two or three passengers when it happens. I can't understand the calls to "deal-with-it" in light of that risk.
As for the students' propensity to complain here, perhaps the effort is misplaced. However, it would not necessarily mean they have neglected options at the command. I can assure you that some of them have voiced concerns in writing.
Some students are pre-flighting at that time, fifty miles from Pensacola. The bus situation would appear quite favorable.
IFS suffers from some major problems. Although there seems to be a great deal of attention focused on the costs, that is only one of the issues.
There are inherent problems with standardization, oversight, and safety. Flight schools need to log hours in order to make money and they have every economic incentive to turn students out quickly. Crew rest is a non-existent concept.
The IFS atmosphere is not conducive to solving these problems. Students can receive pink sheets based on issues with the flight school...a business that can also unilaterally attrite them. No one wants to rock the boat, especially an ENS who has never heard of the JFTR.
This is going to be a serious concern when someone crashes a car on I-10 due to lack of sleep. Worse yet, one student might be driving around with two or three passengers when it happens. I can't understand the calls to "deal-with-it" in light of that risk.
As for the students' propensity to complain here, perhaps the effort is misplaced. However, it would not necessarily mean they have neglected options at the command. I can assure you that some of them have voiced concerns in writing.
Some students are pre-flighting at that time, fifty miles from Pensacola. The bus situation would appear quite favorable.
I don't doubt it, but out of curiosity, what do they do for the next hour and a half? Do they preflight and then brief? I ask because the sun doesn't come up until after 0600.
We had a similar issue here due to a computer issue. Briefs were set at before 0500 even though the field doesn't open until 0700. It looks like it's been fixed.
I believe the locations for IFS include:
PNS, Mobile, Bay Minnette, Destin, Eglin, & Milton
Yeah, no lie. Esp if you have Miles @ Eglin. You'll get your "night" flying in before the sun comes up!