I hate 121

[Battlephrog]

Started at a regional early this year...been on the line for a few months....and I think I hate it. I never thought flying a bus would be fun but went into it for the money, frankly. The flying itself isn't fun. It's mostly button pushing and not the type of flying I'm used to. I'm not really enjoying the frequency of being away from home and I don't like the people I'm flying with (everyone seems out for themselves, no teamwork mentality). There's lots of time pressure to get the pax out on time and the giant airports we fly into are the WORST. My dream was always medical helicopters but only 1000 rotor time didn't put me in a position to do that (yeah, got out too soon but too late to change it now).

Am I the only one? Should I give it more time? Should I bail for 135s or cargo? Take the money and fly helicopters on the side? Should I be trying harder to make friends? Sorry for the whiny post, just trying to gauge if I'm crazy or not. Everyone acts like 121 is THE place to be and I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Griz882]

I have a friend who left the army with about the same number of hours in the -60, he too wanted to go to EMS and to get his hours went here… https://jobs.papillon.com/

They hire 1000 hour guys with piston time only . They hired him immediately, he worked two years (on a tough 5 on 2 off schedule of very long days), and got up to 2200 hours. He flies for Air Methods now.

 

[skybert]

Im a 91 corporate pilot, don’t mind flying rich people to Florida in the winter and hanging out on the beach for a couple days at a time.

just sayin

 

[Battlephrog]

I have a friend who left the army with about the same number of hours in the -60, he too wanted to go to EMS and to get his hours went here… https://jobs.papillon.com/

They hire 1000 hour guys with piston time only . They hired him immediately, he worked two years (on a tough 5 on 2 off schedule of very long days), and got up to 2200 hours. He flies for Air Methods now.

Generally I think my best option will be instructing locally if I go the helicopter route. I'm not looking to drag my family around the country to build time. However my regional doesn't allow commercial flying (or flight instruction) on the side, which could be an issue if I want to keep my job while I build hours.

Im a 91 corporate pilot, don’t mind flying rich people to Florida in the winter and hanging out on the beach for a couple days at a time.

just sayin

Sounds amazing but I don't know how to find these unicorn jobs. Netjets is a possibility but I don't think they hang out on the beach much. More like 12 hour days, multi legs per day, short overnights is what I hear.

 

[wink]

Im a 91 corporate pilot, don’t mind flying rich people to Florida in the winter and hanging out on the beach for a couple days at a time.

just sayin

And some of those jobs require a dual rating. Have your cake and eat it too.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I've often wondered if I would have felt the same way at the airlines, @Battlephrog . As it turns out, my professional flying niche has worked out nicely, in spite of my timing being absolutely horrible for the airlines. If you decide 121 isn't for you, I bet you could carve out a sweet Part 91 deal somewhere with all the pilot jobs available right now. Get on LinkedIn, and try joining a local flying club- you'd be surprised at the connections you can make. I'd prioritize connections outside your airline for a fresh perspective. Being a type-rated professional pilot with >1500 total time gives you options.

Maybe a solution will present itself. Good luck!

 

[Brett327]

I’ve always thought forest fire fighting aviation would be a rewarding gig that’s probably pretty close to being in a “tactical” environment.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Regional 121 is not the same as Majors 121…. I have never flown with a regional guy that doesn’t say the same thing as you. You’re in the pits building time to get to the next level. And so is everybody else… You’re not at your final destination…. But if you hate the people hauling, build your time and come fly trash around the world with us. Everybody I fly with is awesome. (Well, mostly), boxes don’t bitch, jumpseat on us sometime and you will see it’s like a Ready Room in ops. My buddy just left United after 6 years and has only been here a few weeks and loves it..

But don’t expect any dynamic flying.. This shit is positive rate, gear up…. If you miss that stuff, you’re never gonna be happy.. You’re gonna have to buy an RV-8 like me or a Grizcopter to get your “fun” flying…

 

[Gatordev]

I’ve always thought forest fire fighting aviation would be a rewarding gig that’s probably pretty close to being in a “tactical” environment.

But with a lot of away time. Often 14/14 (or 28/28) unless you get a Cal-Fire-like gig, which is not easy and probably requires a move, which Battlephrog doesn't sound excited about.

I do agree, though, it does sound like an interesting gig at some locations.

 

[zippy]

Started at a regional early this year...been on the line for a few months....and I think I hate it. I never thought flying a bus would be fun but went into it for the money, frankly. The flying itself isn't fun. It's mostly button pushing and not the type of flying I'm used to. I'm not really enjoying the frequency of being away from home and I don't like the people I'm flying with (everyone seems out for themselves, no teamwork mentality). There's lots of time pressure to get the pax out on time and the giant airports we fly into are the WORST. My dream was always medical helicopters but only 1000 rotor time didn't put me in a position to do that (yeah, got out too soon but too late to change it now).

Am I the only one? Should I give it more time? Should I bail for 135s or cargo? Take the money and fly helicopters on the side? Should I be trying harder to make friends? Sorry for the whiny post, just trying to gauge if I'm crazy or not. Everyone acts like 121 is THE place to be and I'm just not seeing it.

Even with the better pay, regional FO flying 3-5 legs a day in an RJ is certainly not the place to be, especially when junior. The good news is that if you stay for a bit it can only get better. My favorite part of being an RJ FO was all the training backlogs that allowed me to use the crap out of my nonrev benefits. A fair bit of the captains you fly with a quirky, eccentric underachievers or are waging their own personal war against the company, which is why in this hiring environment you’re flying with them. They haven’t put much effort into GTFO (regional lifer syndrome) and you’re junior so get the leftovers from FOs who bid to avoid these types or call out sick since they’ve already gotten their fill. I didn’t really like being an RJ FO, I showed up and did it in order to upgrade to get the PIC time I needed to move on to the next best thing.

I was 1000x happier being a Captain at my little shit regional than I was being an FO, because I got to be the opposite of all the things I disliked about the people I flew with.

QOL and work rule wise, legacies blow regionals out of the water, especially if you live in base.

The issue of the fixed wing flying isn’t what you’re finding rewarding and your dream was to be a helicopter med pilot… Go to RTAG and talk to the folks in the helicopter job booths and see what shakes loose. There are some dual qual med pilot Jobs out there, figure out how to go after them. Think you got out too early? Look at joining your state Guard as a warrant to fly whatever the’ve got to offer.

I’ve hated jobs before, to the point where I dreaded getting out of bed in the morning. If you’re at that point you need to change the path you’re on because 20-30 years of that isn’t worth it regardless of the earnings potential. The beauty of your situation is you can quit your current job whenever you want.

 

[SynixMan]

No doubt about it, RJ FO is a shit job. I actively avoided work my last few months at Skywest. Now that I've moved on to bigger and better, things are much improved, so I think it was worth it. The work rules at better carriers really make your quality of life improve substantially. Less 10 hour layovers in shit cities with no food, less stressful days, better crews, flexible scheduling, etc. I also get big blocks of time off I really appreciate.

If you really want to do fly rotors again, you're gonna need to build time and find a destination gig. I kicked the tires on Maryland State Police back during COVID as a fallback, and there are some other municipal gigs that are okay. Helos are inherently expensive to operate so I felt like a taxpayer funded operation was a safer bet after watching the oil rig flyers all lose their jobs in the late 2010s.

 

[Brett327]

Ton of tour helos here on Kauai, zipping through amazing scenery all day long with a load of tourists in back. Lots of that in Vegas too.

 

[Battlephrog]

I can't imagine how it's better at mainline. Same shit, different metal. Our work rules are pretty good from what I'm told, no junior manning and we can drop trips and trade whenever we want. The problem is, nothing about this job scratches any itch I have. I could live without this or that, but I'm having trouble finding a single thing I like about it.

Too old to go reserves or guard. I tried. Multiple times.

I get that it's just button mashing. I can live with that if I can fix the other stuff, but it sure doesn't feel like flying (I'm not implying it's not difficult- in fact learning the FMS/AP was one of the more challenging aspects).

The cities we visit are limited to airports with the highest workload, the gates are always full and we are always sitting and waiting because there's no gate or no ground crew. The hotels are average and frequently there's nowhere to eat. Layovers are short and when they are not, everyone keeps to themselves.

I don't think any one of these people has my back. There's no teamwork. There's little mentorship. There's a "figure it out yourself" attitude, then incredulity (or laughter) when you screw up. I ask a question and the captain scoffs and still doesn't answer the question. One CA said "they'll have to pay me CKA pay if they want me to teach FOs." Another told me "I'm always late so I expect you to have everything ready when I show up." I wish I could say it was only a few folks like this but it seems to be the majority. I think Zippy nailed it with his description: They're mostly the ones who want to leave but can't, so they're bitter and taking it out on the FOs.

I really enjoyed teaching when I was a CFI. I liked working with people, I liked my coworkers, I liked the flying, and especially being home every night. The ONLY problem was the pay. I thought about going into the training department here but I'm not sure I want to be around these people more than I already am. I'm going to give it more time, I'm hoping that it's just FNG acclimatization but I don't know yet. I'm dreading my next trip already.

 

[Griz882]

I can't imagine how it's better at mainline. Same shit, different metal. Our work rules are pretty good from what I'm told, no junior manning and we can drop trips and trade whenever we want. The problem is, nothing about this job scratches any itch I have. I could live without this or that, but I'm having trouble finding a single thing I like about it.

Too old to go reserves or guard. I tried. Multiple times.

I get that it's just button mashing. I can live with that if I can fix the other stuff, but it sure doesn't feel like flying (I'm not implying it's not difficult- in fact learning the FMS/AP was one of the more challenging aspects).

The cities we visit are limited to airports with the highest workload, the gates are always full and we are always sitting and waiting because there's no gate or no ground crew. The hotels are average and frequently there's nowhere to eat. Layovers are short and when they are not, everyone keeps to themselves.

I don't think any one of these people has my back. There's no teamwork. There's little mentorship. There's a "figure it out yourself" attitude, then incredulity (or laughter) when you screw up. I ask a question and the captain scoffs and still doesn't answer the question. One CA said "they'll have to pay me CKA pay if they want me to teach FOs." Another told me "I'm always late so I expect you to have everything ready when I show up." I wish I could say it was only a few folks like this but it seems to be the majority. I think Zippy nailed it with his description: They're mostly the ones who want to leave but can't, so they're bitter and taking it out on the FOs.

I really enjoyed teaching when I was a CFI. I liked working with people, I liked my coworkers, I liked the flying, and especially being home every night. The ONLY problem was the pay. I thought about going into the training department here but I'm not sure I want to be around these people more than I already am. I'm going to give it more time, I'm hoping that it's just FNG acclimatization but I don't know yet. I'm dreading my next trip already.

I seriously hope it goes well for you. If you live in the DC area let me know…you are welcome to fly the Griz-O-Copter to build a few more rotary hours (but you have to pay for the gas and oil you use!). Besides, learning to fly a piston helicopter with a sketchy “correlator” will make you a better pilot.

 

[HSMPBR]

(but you have to pay for the gas and oil you use!)

Damn, Griz, is it a two-stroke?