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Hot new helicopter/rotorcraft news

ChuckMK23 said:
It can't be coincidence that all three services (Army, AF, Navy/Marines/USCG) are taking disruptive approach to helicopter/rotorcraft pilot training. And all seem to be reaching similar conclusions.

I've gotten poo-poo'd when I have mentioned this before, but can a consolidated "Defense Flying School" for primary helo training be far off?
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God I hope so… if only to wrench it out of the grip of a bunch of decrepit cadre holding the reins and power of what Aviation Branch feels is important.

We do have a buttload of available infrastructure at El Paso now with the reduction of 1AD…. Let’s do this!
 
Griz882 said:
Sorry, that won’t do. The beaches in El Paso suck.
Signed, the ensigns.
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See I want to put training in shitty places to stop the homesteading comfort job BS that people have in Fort Rucker. You want to teach… you need to be doing it for the right reasons, not because it’s a great place to just retire on active duty.

Way too many of our green suit guys get the ticket of a lifetime to go down there and then just refuse to leave and bring all that “tactical knowledge” to the force.
 
Lawman said:
See I want to put training in shitty places to stop the homesteading comfort job BS that people have in Fort Rucker. You want to teach… you need to be doing it for the right reasons, not because it’s a great place to just retire on active duty.

Way too many of our green suit guys get the ticket of a lifetime to go down there and then just refuse to leave and bring all that “tactical knowledge” to the force.
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The fact that Fort Rucker is considered a garden spot in the Army shows that you all need to adjust your expectations upwards.
 
Lawman said:
See I want to put training in shitty places to stop the homesteading comfort job BS that people have in Fort Rucker. You want to teach… you need to be doing it for the right reasons, not because it’s a great place to just retire on active duty.

Way too many of our green suit guys get the ticket of a lifetime to go down there and then just refuse to leave and bring all that “tactical knowledge” to the force.
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OTOH, places like Edwards AFB have trouble finding people willing to work for GS pay, regardless of the impactful and interesting nature of the work.
 
phrogdriver said:
The fact that Fort Rucker is considered a garden spot in the Army shows that you all need to adjust your expectations upwards.
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Less garden location, more garden work hours.

No gunnery, no pulling dumb duties like SDO/FDO (watch), no trips to the field, no Eucom deployments…

It’s almost like getting same pay for a F load less work, and sliding into a 150k year job with a paid off house because you “stabilized” for 7 years…. So when you finally do drop papers because the label on the contracted company may change, but the pilot and maintainer pool doesn’t.
 
Griz882 said:
I believe COPT-R is a very valuable program that has simply made a mistake by picking a cheap trainer to maximize corporate profits...
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That's not entirely true. It has nothing to do with corporations trying to maximize profits and everything to do with minimizing costs. The COPT-R contract is written as an LPTA (Lowest Price Technically Acceptable) contract. That means that the lowest bidder will receive the contract as long as they meet all the requirements (single-engine turbine with glass cockpit). If company A bids $4M and company B bids $4,000,001 then company A gets the award, even if they're in the R66 and company B is offering to do it in the Bell 407.
Griz882 said:
if I were in the CNATRA office I’d say “You can keep the contract if you dump the Robinson.”
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You want a massive lawsuit and GAO investigation? Because that's how you get a massive lawsuit and GAO investigation.

Griz882 said:
That said, I also believe that if COPT-R renews the contract it will be eventually rolled in to the eventual Army training contract, “Flight School Next” - in short, this is the gateway drug to a service wide helicopter only training pipeline.
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I can see where this looks like a possibility, but I've been in on some of the upper-echelon meetings and I haven't seen anything to indicate that anyone is actually considering this. They're copying each other's homework, sure, but no one thinks we could (or should) do it as one contract. The Army and Navy have pretty different goals for their programs.
 
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OK. Can someone give me something concrete on why the R66 is a bad trainer? I understand that they had a higher vulnerability to Mast-Bumping, but that was addressed with the empennage redesign in 2023. I've been in these helos. They fly well, have plenty of power, and have modern avionics (G500 with a GTN750). What am I missing?
 
FlyNavy03 said:
OK. Can someone give me something concrete on why the R66 is a bad trainer? I understand that they had a higher vulnerability to Mast-Bumping, but that was addressed with the empennage redesign in 2023. I've been in these helos. They fly well, have plenty of power, and have modern avionics (G500 with a GTN750). What am I missing?
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Well, since I started this complaint I’ll offer my OPINION.

1. T-bar cyclic is different from everything else in the service. Yes, I know, it only takes a little while “to get used too,” but how will that translate when a student jumps to the TH-73? My consideration is that the control system is different and actually feels different.

2. The rotor system. The new empennage should aid the issue but does not alleviate it.

3. Most importantly, the weight. The thing that makes Robby’s so popular (and inexpensive) is that they have shaved off every possible pound. At an empty weight of just under 1300 pounds, it is too light to be an effective training helicopter for military purposes. Put it up on a windy day, and you are fighting all the way because it just gets tossed around.

In 2025 alone there have been four or five R66 crashes that have killed five people and injured four or five. I’m not an engineer, aviation crash investigator, or test pilot. I bow to the superior hours and experience others here absolutely have over me. I even think the R66 is a fine, little, tour machine - but it is not suitable for the demands of military training, especially for aviators heading to machines that weigh 15,0000 pounds or more empty. Again…his is just my opinion.
 
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