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Hiring floodgates opening in 3....2.....1.....
- Thread starter EODDave
- Start date
Would also say talent doesn’t matter for AD promotion/screening (it’s all about certain checks in the blocks and last man standing)
Some people decry this method. But it’s super simple: seniority is king. Got what you wanted? Congrats for being senior enough to get it. Didn’t get what you wanted? Stick around long enough and you’ll be senior enough to get it.
No mysteries. No “did this not play well at the board?”. No assignment to go be a ramper in Des Moines for three years for career diversification. Show up ready to go, fly the jet the way the company wants it flown, be safe and professional.
I agree in general. But I’ve always had other thoughts on this. Speaking purely about flying, I feel it carries a lot more weight seeing a division lead vetted through a demanding syllabus, than a Captain who is only a captain because he/she just waited to be senior enough. I get that’s a broad brush and there’s always some nuance (some SFWT requirements getting gun decked, an occasional captain candidate that doesn’t pass). But to me, while I respect the CA’s authority as PIC, I don’t see the same mantle of prestige/respect/skill/talent/whatever that I would see from somebody who earned their qualifications through flying talent. Again, not saying I think the CA position is bullshit or that a CA is untalented, I don’t think that at all. Just “seniority vs ability” for qualifications carries different weight for me.
edit: I admit I’m relatively new to the show and don’t know all there is yet. If somebody can enlighten me on what I might be missing, I would be grateful!
I know what you’re saying but I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison. For example, when I’m 64, I think I’d rather do day turns to the Caribbean and never worry about deicing and sleep in my own bed each night. Others may be shooting for widebody CA and commuting to a coast or Detroit because the routes they prefer are out of there. To each his own. But my bidding power certainly won’t be based on how well I did at my last recurrent, or how I fell out on the Chief Pilot’s rack and stack in the Fitrep 500.
I also don’t really care if the CA is the ace of base. I’d like him or her to be safe, professional, and fly by the book. And if they’re not, there’s means to address that. Hopefully they’re fun to go on a trip with, personable, and of course it’s even better if they’re buying.
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Couldn’t edit my earlier post. My two cents, YMMV.
You’re going to fly with all different types. I certainly think that 99% of the time it’s going to be a very good experience. There’s always outliers, but I’ve enjoyed almost every trip. Sometimes you click with some more than others, but there’s usually some common ground to help the hours pass more enjoyably. I would go into it with a very open mind and understand that due to the varied backgrounds there will be those who won’t give two hoots about YOUR level 4 syllabus or understand what you did to get it. And that’s fine. It’s always fun to fly with other military guys and hear their stories but the civilian only guys didn’t just luck into their positions either. And they will all (hopefully) teach you SO SO much about the 121 world and how your company operates and give you good mentorship and guidance. There will more than likely be a few times when you’ll be looking forward to the parking brake being set back at home. But there’s lessons to be learned from those trips as well. BLAB: coming from the military it can be an adjustment, but as soon as anyone gets some meaningful seniority the payoff becomes much more tangible.
True, but what does that have to do with anything. Nobody is talking about having anyone care about us being a pilot. And regarding your last sentence, this discussion is about pilots and “other pilots.”
Yes and no. Merit, outside meeting the requirements to earn the interview, has very little to do with how you'll do at the airlines. Great sticks sometimes end up as check airman, sometimes end up as management if they really want to make the big bucks, or sometimes just fly the line. Shitty sticks can also do all those things. I know your post is tongue-in-cheek, but indulge me.
Timing is why every person in the airlines tells every single person who wants to be in the airline to claw their way into the game as soon as they can. Playing fair goes pretty much out the window when it comes to getting a seniority number one higher than the next guy. I worked the phones like a PBS tele-thonner to talk to any of the chief pilots I could get to speak to me at my target airlines. I took the earliest interview and earliest class date I could, and was seriously considering fucking right off the island on my own dime for a week to see if I could get a seat a week earlier.
One small example of how timing can play tricks on you: my start date at my airline is on the 17th of the month. No big deal, right? Well, since my start date is not before the 15th of the month, every longevity pay raise I get doesn't take effect until the first of the following month. Eh, not great but not bad, right? Well, actually, my paycheck from the work I do in that month doesn't show up until the 20th of the following month...to include 401K and non-elective contributions. There's a definite time value of that money not being mine for 8ish weeks that I'm losing out on there on top of just the extra 2 weeks in the lower pay band...every year for the 12 years of our pay scale til I'm topped out. Extrapolate that over a 30 year career that the money could be soaking in the market and you're talking some pretty nice chunks of cheese.
Being in class one week earlier would mean all my longevity pay would start the month earlier, vice a month later. Am I going to starve from all this? Nope. Do I really give a shit? Not really. Outside sport bitching, I make a pretty fantastic living to watch george struggle with mountain wave turbulence and make thoughtful suggestions like "39 sucks ass. you wanna try 37 or 35?" There are guys who were in class one week earlier than their buddies. Their buddies got WARN letters and they didn't. Timing is everything.
This is just something that goes to prove the rule: beg, borrow, lie, cheat, and steal (but don't get caught and if you do get caught, don't open your mouth without union representation) to get to the job you want as early as physically possible. There's no way anyone angling for a job at the airlines can possibly know all the work rules of each individual pilot work agreement or CBA, so just follow the one simple rule of get your employee and seniority number as soon as you can.
Yup. Seniority is king. To clarify from my post, I wasn’t saying that my (or anyone else’s) level 4 qual should be used to impress anyone. That has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. It was an example I picked to illustrate my point of merit vs seniority for qualifications.
Not trying to say I’m ace of the base. Not saying anybody cares about what I did (I know they don’t). It was just an example.
I really enjoyed flying with every CA I flew with except for one. I learned a lot from them and it was a great time. Looking forward to getting back on the line.
I saw way shittier (and more instances) senior aircrew in the Navy than I have seen in my 17 years in the show, from assholes to incompetence to just plain weird. And we had a Captain that used to talk with a puppet, a fucking hand puppet.
Here’s the attention you desire. Now run along.
..................What!
Patricia “don‘t call me Pat” Axxxx
You would get tricked into flying with her if you weren’t paying attention or “in the know” because her name on the pairing was P. Axxxx Jr. Yes, a female junior; never even knew that was a thing. She’s retired now. Actually it became such an issue that FedEx paid her for a year to not come to work. She had only been back for a few years after being out medical for a long time. Some of us think it was all an act to be out on medical and the DRs and OK City called her bluff.
Let's see. We had a CA that believed there was a mid air risk with UFOs by flying into clouds, a CA that went to the federal pen for not paying ANY taxes for years, and famously, a CA that wrote a book called "The Predatory Female". He refused to speak with female FAs. Oh, he was an ordained Reverend as well. http://www.revolucionantifeminista..../06/lawrence-shannon-the-predatory-female.pdf
Those are just the ones that I personally ran across.