HELP!! Trying to make sure my fellow 4/C doesn't get kicked out of the unit

[EODDave]

Oh, for everyone here that's saying hang the kid, he fucked up. And great, this is just who we want leading our troopers ( sarcasm noted here). YOU are part of the problem with today's Navy. Zero tolerance for any error is complete an utter bullshit. If you fire anyone who makes a mistake, thinking it will weed out all the bad influences, you are flat out wrong. You can't grow as a leader without making mistakes. If you treat your unit, command, etc. with this attitude, the only thing you are doing is blunting the tip of the spear. Stop drinking the cool aide. End rant.

 

[BackOrdered]

Oh, for everyone here that's saying hang the kid, he fucked up. And great, this is just who we want leading our troopers ( sarcasm noted here). YOU are part of the problem with today's Navy.

OK, I'll bite, what does this (below) even mean? Because to me it butchers the character of the OP and his friend by association in my eyes if he thinks this is generous behavior.

Looking over the citation again, it seems obvious to me that the police officer was very generous. He checked off that my friend was African American on the paper, when he is white. Little things like that.

 

[Spekkio]

OK, I'll bite, what does this (below) even mean? Because to me it butchers the character of the OP

Because OP is acting like a typical 18-20 year old who is going into damage control mode for fear of having the book thrown at him for doing something stupid. His survival instinct is telling him "well, they jacked up the paperwork and maybe if I go to court and get it thrown out, no one will know I got a citation and this will all just go away, and I'll stop being a retarded drunkie."

How do I know? Because I've been there, done that. Thankfully, no zero tolerance policy cost me a livelihood when I went into DC mode and got caught lying about shooting a bottle rocket at someone's house and lit their bush on fire when I was 17. Pissing in public? I bet if we pulled the string on many of our peers we can find a lot worse than that, they just didn't get caught.

I hardly think it's abnormal to go into survival mode or worth crucifying him over it. Hopefully he listens to the guidance on this thread and owns up to it to his CoC. The Navy trains you to tell on yourself and take ownership of your actions. He hasn't learned that yet as a 4/c dicking around with drill once or twice a week for a month and I know for a fact that just being screened for NROTC does not mean one is magically bestowed superior moral character and integrity above everyone else. It's learned through training.

Hopefully, the NROTC unit conveys to OP's friend the seriousness of the commitment that he's making, that he needs to grow up faster than all the other freshman around him, and that he better be a fucking superstar midshipmen from here on out instead of just canning him for being stupid. He's got 4 years of growing up to do before he hits the fleet.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Oh, for everyone here that's saying hang the kid, he fucked up. And great, this is just who we want leading our troopers ( sarcasm noted here). YOU are part of the problem with today's Navy. Zero tolerance for any error is complete an utter bullshit. If you fire anyone who makes a mistake, thinking it will weed out all the bad influences, you are flat out wrong. You can't grow as a leader without making mistakes. If you treat your unit, command, etc. with this attitude, the only thing you are doing is blunting the tip of the spear. Stop drinking the cool aide. End rant.

Dave's post here is spot on IMO. You don't end careers before they even start over something as trivial as this. This incident isn't indicative of a character flaw. Now a string of these kinds of incidences is another story altogether. Give the kid his silver bullet and carry on. We've all done worse. If you haven't, then you just haven't got caught.

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

Plot twist - there is no 'friend'!

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

My only legal expertise is in fighting speeding tickets, so if this is anything like that, I would say just plead "not guilty" and show up to court ready to fight the ticket (and looking sharp, as was already posted), and if the cop is as generous as you mentioned, he won't be there to testify against you, and the judge will throw it out.

And I'm with EODDave and Steve Wilkins. I'd give him a second chance.

"Everybody gets one."

 

[Flash]

.....My friend and fellow 4/C got busted with public urination over the weekend......Yesterday my friend, knowing that the CoC didn't know about the incident, told me that he would tell our freshman advisor (an LT). He goes tomorrow morning. Can they get him for underage drinking even if he wasn't charged with it? What should he do?

Oh, for everyone here that's saying hang the kid, he fucked up. And great, this is just who we want leading our troopers ( sarcasm noted here). YOU are part of the problem with today's Navy. Zero tolerance for any error is complete an utter bullshit. If you fire anyone who makes a mistake, thinking it will weed out all the bad influences, you are flat out wrong. You can't grow as a leader without making mistakes. If you treat your unit, command, etc. with this attitude, the only thing you are doing is blunting the tip of the spear. Stop drinking the cool aide. End rant.

Hopefully the freshman advisor does what many of my peers and bosses have done when one of their folks does something stupid but harmless; chew their ass out and put the paperwork in the drawer just in case it becomes a habit for the 'offender'. Usually a lesson was learned and nothing more was said or done, that is unless you 'goosed' a Brigadier General's wife at the O'Club when wasted........but that is another story.

Plenty of guys in my NROTC unit, myself included, got in trouble for all sorts of things at school and the unit leadership knew about it soon enough since it was published in black and white for everyone to see. What happened nine times out of ten was what I described above, a few were more serious but were eventually worked out. For pissing in public? Some EI and a pretty clean nose from now on ought to be enough for a first-time offender.

 

[jcj]

Just to be clear I am not at all saying hang the kid. I am saying he messed up. Accept responsibility, do whatever damage control can be done, learn from it and move on. What damage control can be done is to let your CoC know ASAP and go see the judge in the role of a respectful, honest good kid who messed up and is deserving of getting a break. The judge might just be inclined to give a break to a clean, nicely dressed respectful kid after a day full of dealing with disrespectful clowns. You might walk away with an ass chewing and a dismissal - which is better than pleading guilty and paying a fine. At any rate, good luck and take this opportunity to learn.

 

[MIDNJAC]

He needs to be upfront and honest. I won't say that things haven't changed since I was a MIDN, but I do remember seeing a 4/C when I was like a 2nd or 1/C get a DUI out in town. Marine option, was retained in the program, and I believe commissioned (though I was gone when that would have happened). This isn't to say that stuff like this isn't viewed seriously, because it is, but he isn't definitely out at this point provided he is honest. If he lies (or lies by omission) it will bite him eventually......security clearance time at a minimum, provided nobody finds out first. At that point, he will definitely definitely be out. Pick your poison, but I'd go with honesty, like others have said.

 

[jtmedli]

Soooo let me get this straight... You can get a ticket for pissing outside? Learn something new everyday I guess.

I'm with Dave. Those of you saying "he will get shit-canned" and/or backing that approach should stand down. You are part of the problem. We seem to forget that some of our most famed Naval Aviators crashed and/or got shot down in 4 or 5 birds in the process of getting all those air medals when these days we seem to look for any reason we can find to crucify someone who makes a mistake (or just has an accident 'cause God Forbid we don't find some minuscule reason to blame it on someone).

So what do I think should be done? Give the kid a funny call sign and KCCO. Throughout history much greater men have done much dumber shit and been just fine in the end.

 

[zippy]

Tldr,

Tell your unit, but be prepared to expect a minimum or a PRB for possible disenrollment from the program and Leave of absense (but still Mando participation in Unit events) if you're a scholarship student until the court thing is adjudicated if they decide to keep you. Be prepared to go through the Navy's DAPA process as well, in addition to being MIDN shitbag for a while.

I've seen, and been part of one of, the actions listed above in response to ARIs by NROTC students at school. Course of action will be dictated by the Unit staff. They could crucify you fleet style or treat you like a dumbass college student who needs a boot up their ass. Either way, don't fuck up again if they keep you and you want to see your commissioning.

It might be worth exploring getting your ticket overturned- but I'd talk to the Unit Staff first, to see if your continued enrollment in the program hinged on it (I know of a couple cases first hand where comissions hung in the balance of court cases).

Good luck, and stop being a fucking dumbass. Your Units tolerance for doing paperwork to keep you will be very low after this.

 

[Brett327]

Seems like a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing on this issue. While I appreciate the potential for making mountains out of this mole hill, the OP (or friend) has to operate in the environment/command climate he's in, and not the one some of us might wish he were in. His CoC could go either way on this, but that's out of his hands.

BL: Notify your CoC, take full responsibility for your actions and hope for the best.

 

[ea6bflyr]

As a former Freshmen Advisor at a BIG NROTC unit, I had an incident just like this one.

He was a good kid and had already spoken to his parents; I took care of him. I counseled him, and we worked through the ticket. In the end, the student & I went to court in our whites; we spoke with the judge, and the judge had him do community service then expunged the ticket from the record. I did tell him that I would keep a record of the incident and he was to keep his nose clean through the rest of his time at the unit. He did and he commissioned without further incident. The other LT's and the MOI was made aware of the incident.

Yes, we all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

 

[Machine]

I am utterly confused. Why the hell should he tell anyone about it? That is HORRIBLE advice. There's no reason to concern your CoC over a $25 infraction. He's setting himself for a much worse situation if some fucktard feels like they need to blow it out of proportion. WTF is this world coming to?

 

[jg54170]

This is utterly simple. Tell your/your friends CoC you were pissing outside and a cop saw you and you got a $25 fine. Is a court appearance required? I cant imagine anyone will look twice or hard eough at such an infraction unless there are other flags. I piss off my stoop all the time when I am in the man cave, luckily I live on a culdesac.

Just man up and be forthcoming, that means a lot more than trying to come up with excuses and arguing technicalities and such.