HELP!! Trying to make sure my fellow 4/C doesn't get kicked out of the unit

[Shane-27]

Good evening all,

My name is Shane, I am a 4/C MIDN. My friend and fellow 4/C got busted with public urination over the weekend. The police officer apparently was nice and understanding, and must have realized that just being in that situation scared the hell out of the kid, because he did not charge him with underage drinking. I looked at his citation today, and it is a $25.00 fine, less than a traffic ticket. It does not mention alcohol at all, except one place at the bottom on the detachable mail-in part, where it gives his BAC. Yesterday my friend, knowing that the CoC didn't know about the incident, told me that he would tell our freshman advisor (an LT). He goes tomorrow morning. Can they get him for underage drinking even if he wasn't charged with it? What should he do? He honestly is a good guy, one of the most dedicated ones here. This is one of the first times I had even heard of him drinking, and I regret not going with him to look out for him. Any advice is greatly appreciated, I know he learned his lesson, you can see it by just looking at him.

^College NROTC unit

 

[picklesuit]

Actions have consequences...he should be the FIRST to tell your unit commander...
Pickle

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

Sounds like he is out of luck. Most likely he will be dropped from the program.

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

1. Nobody knows what will happen.

2. One of the best qualities of a Naval Aviator is not getting caught, whether it be for urinating in public or by a SA-XX.

3. When I was a mid, a decade ago, this sort of behavior would result in a "talking to", nothing more. In today's navy, I'd expect your NROTC unit commander to be on the front page of Navy Crimes to pay for the sins of your unit.

4. Not to be a dick, but you're freshman, and many people don't finish the ROTC pipeline, for a myriad of reasons. You could be the biggest rock star in the world, and get NAMI-whamied before you even start API and find yourself out of the navy before the summer is over after your graduation. Happened to more than one friend of mine.

5. PS, if your name is really Shane, I wouldn't plaster it all over the internet. Not too many Shanes around.

 

[e6bflyer]

Lying is dumb. I have personally seen a JO in my squadron get shitcanned for lying about....wait for it...a public urination incident. The right thing to do is fess up and admit he made a mistake and be contrite. If he has made any money with the unit, they may deem him worth salvaging. Being up front and telling the truth is the smart thing to do.

 

[jcj]

1. Bad news never gets better with age - he should disclose to his CoC now if he hasn't already. Maybe the freshmen advisor can help make that happen the best way it can, but it needs to be fast. If his CoC finds out from anyone else but him, he's fucked. And whatever he does now or later - never lie about this. The cover-up is always worse than the crime.

2. Not to take away from the seriousness of # 1 above, but he may be able to get a break from the law - it sounds like the cop already threw him a bone. If he wasn't charged with MIP or underage drinking at the time, it's unlikely he will be later. If he has an option to go to court, the best thing he can do is go to court (and show up early) clean shaven, perfect short haircut, shave, shined shoes, best suit & tie he can afford (NOT a uniform), and be the ultimate of polite to the judge, the police the DA, other people there for other reasons, etc. You probably get the picture, but in case you don't here's the picture he needs to paint: The world's most HUMBLE, POLITE, kid who slipped up just this once and is ABSOLUTELY MORTIFIED and EMBARRASSED that this happened - and will do whatever the Judge says - and do it with a "thank you your honor" - to clear his record and hopefully walk away without a permanent issue.

Depending on the jurisdiction, he might walk away with probation with dismissal if no further trouble after 6 months or something like that. Or he might not. But if they are inclined to (and can) give anyone a break it will be him, and not the smart-ass kid in the dirty t-shirt with the ipod who shows up late.

And if he does get a break and gets off the hook, this needs to be a life decision point for him. It's kinda fun to watch people act like this on spring break, but people in responsible positions don't behave like this & if his goal is to fly a multimillion dollar military aircraft, or lead Marines or Sailors potentially into combat, or be responsible for major systems on a warship, or care for human beings when they're sick or injured it's time to leave the "drinking so much you have to piss in public" shenanigans behind. Good on you for wanting to help him, but he's got to make the decision himself - you won't always be there.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

MIDN 4/C so this is what his first few months there? what a way to make a first impression!

I have had guys on the ship get busted for public urination, didn't go well, if they were underage they were sent to NJP for underage drinking, disobeying a direct order, public intoxication, and I am sure there is something I am missing.

Think of the bright side, if he keeps his nose clean and gets decent grades he can apply for OCS in 4 years!

 

[Col Angus]

Crucify him!

 

[Shane-27]

Thank you for all the responses,

No, my name is not really Shane. And yes my friend will be the first one to tell the LT. No, he will not lie about anything, we told him that's a huge mistake. There is really no need to go to court, it's not something that stays on your permanent record. As I said, less severe than a traffic ticket. Yes he has told me about fifty times how he realized how badly he wants to be in the program and commission. Needless to say he hasn't gone out since, instead he's been hitting the books even harder. At the time of the incident, the officer told him during questioning that "if you lose your scholarship have them call me". Looking over the citation again, it seems obvious to me that the police officer was very generous. He checked off that my friend was African American on the paper, when he is white. Little things like that. If need be he could probably get this dismissed in court. However it is only $25, and his main concern is certainly remaining part of the unit. So as I said before, it was not an underage. Will that matter?

 

[robav8r]

Looking over the citation again, it seems obvious to me that the police officer was very generous. He checked off that my friend was African American on the paper, when he is white. Little things like that.

WTF ??? What in the wide world of sports does that mean and what are you trying to say?

 

[jcj]

Thank you for all the responses,

No, my name is not really Shane. And yes my friend will be the first one to tell the LT. No, he will not lie about anything, we told him that's a huge mistake. There is really no need to go to court, it's not something that stays on your permanent record. As I said, less severe than a traffic ticket. Yes he has told me about fifty times how he realized how badly he wants to be in the program and commission. Needless to say he hasn't gone out since, instead he's been hitting the books even harder. At the time of the incident, the officer told him during questioning that "if you lose your scholarship have them call me". Looking over the citation again, it seems obvious to me that the police officer was very generous. He checked off that my friend was African American on the paper, when he is white. Little things like that. If need be he could probably get this dismissed in court. However it is only $25, and his main concern is certainly remaining part of the unit. So as I said before, it was not an underage. Will that matter?

I debated whether or not to even respond again, but here goes:

There is still ignorance, denial and attitude in your post. First the ignorance - at this early stage in your career this is potentially a really big deal - likely a deal killer because as a 4/C you likely haven't built the relationships yet or have the street cred to survive this. Much easier to let you go & replace you with one of the many young men/women who'd love to serve as a naval officer and can avoid your conduct of public drinking to excess to the level that you have to relieve yourself in public. That reflects poorly on the Navy by the way & even in civilian clothes my guess is you look like a member of the armed forces with the haircut, etc. Extra negative points because you are training for a role where you will lead Sailors and/or Marines.

(and I say "you" because the more I hear it sounds like your "friend" might be you, but if it really is a friend the same applies)

Denial because I don't think you "get it" that this is a potential career-ender before your career even starts. The military is in a draw-down mode now, and things like this that might be tolerated when we needed troops in a hurry to send into battle are the management tool used to downsize the force when a peace dividend is sought. Hitting the books is great - but just sending in the check & then pretending like this never happened is a really bad idea. That always involves a plea of guilty (usually in the fine print you sign you sign on the envelope). It will ALWAYS be on your permanent record - it may be in an area where a standard criminal background check may not see it, but investigators doing a TC/SCI and other law enforcement clearances have ways to see everything, even if they are sealed or expunged and even if juvenile.

So I will suggest again, get a haircut and a shave, put on your best humble attitude and the best suit & tie you own (for God's sake NOT your NROTC uniform), go see the judge and say "Your Honor, I am HUMILIATED and MORTIFIED at my actions, and I'd like to do anything the court would prescribe to get this incident behind me with a chance to start over with a clean slate." And mean it.

And lose the attitude you have left in your post above before you see the judge or anyone in authority about this. Judges don't like attitude & they reward attitude with by-the-book rulings, not breaks for deserving young people who slipper up once.

But really it's up to you (or your "friend"). If you were planning an ordinary life with an ordinary career, just mailing in the fine would be OK. You are planning an extraordinary life, and you've (by your own actions) been presented with a serious threat. The expectation is acceptance of responsibility and consequences without denial or attitude, the best (ethical) damage control and mitigation you can do for your career and serious core changes to who you are and what makes you "tick" (or, of courde, your "friend"), to keep this from ever happening again.

All the best...

 

[wlawr005]

Hey man, most CO's would rather keep a guy than shitcan him. Assuming this guy goes forth and honestly confesses, this probably will end up being a non issue. Take it from me, there are guys with much worse issues who have been given second chances.

 

[BackOrdered]

Looking over the citation again, it seems obvious to me that the police officer was very generous. He checked off that my friend was African American on the paper, when he is white. Little things like that.

Yeah, alcohol related incidences and knowingly accepting fabrications on an official report of his misconduct. This guy sounds like a great addition to the fleet!

 

[EODDave]

Wonder if I am missing something here. When I was in college, in a commissioning program, and received a speeding ticket, I didn't report it to anyone. It was a civilian infraction. Paid the fine and that was the end of the story. This isn't a DUI, rape, murder, etc. Maybe I don't know the ROTC program well enough. I just wonder where we are as a Navy, when we are so worried about the stupid shit instead of getting on with the business at hand. And as a side note, I pee outside all the time. He'll here in the UK, people pull over on the side of the road and let it hang, or squat and pee. When you gotta go, you gotta go.

 

[Spekkio]

2. Not to take away from the seriousness of # 1 above, but he may be able to get a break from the law - it sounds like the cop already threw him a bone. If he wasn't charged with MIP or underage drinking at the time, it's unlikely he will be later. If he has an option to go to court, the best thing he can do is go to court (and show up early) clean shaven, perfect short haircut, shave, shined shoes, best suit & tie he can afford (NOT a uniform), and be the ultimate of polite to the judge, the police the DA, other people there for other reasons, etc. You probably get the picture, but in case you don't here's the picture he needs to paint: The world's most HUMBLE, POLITE, kid who slipped up just this once and is ABSOLUTELY MORTIFIED and EMBARRASSED that this happened - and will do whatever the Judge says - and do it with a "thank you your honor" - to clear his record and hopefully walk away without a permanent issue.

Whoa.

He got a citation for a $25 fine. It's akin to a traffic ticket, legally speaking. If he goes in front of a judge, the judge isn't stupid and s/he will know that the only reason OP's 'friend' is standing there is to have the charges dropped on some legal technicality, no matter how humble OP's 'friend' acts. If his plan is to go in front of the judge and say "yes, your honor, I did it and I'm really really sorry" then he should check guilty on the ticket and stop wasting everyone's time over a $25 violation. Quite frankly, the penalty isn't serious enough for the DA to have any motivation to plea bargain the charge seeing as it's not even a misdemeanor, and he'll probably want to teach the kid a lesson. Unless he lives in a district like where I grew up and they auto plea bargained every ticket (it would cost your more money on the fine). But the worst that happens (legally) from going to court is that he wastes a few hours and has to pay the $25 fine plus like $50-200 of court costs.

The bigger concern your 'friend' needs to have is how the NROTC unit will handle this. And your friend dun goofed. The best COA is to take it on the chin and let the chips fall. Seeing as none of us are neither your NROTC unit's CO nor speaking to your 'friend,' we can't really tell you how that conversation will go.