HCS-5 Re-established

[Jim123]

... the GAU 21 in the right door blocks the access to the hoist...

IIRC this point is in every "Intro to the H-60" brief, under ".50 cal vs 7.62 pros and cons," that the shoes get at the beginning of the workup cycle.

 

[Firehawk]

Don't lead yourselves down the road - we screwed up and did not buy the mount - what is a primary mission of every Navy helo? - SAR. And the GAU 21 in the right door blocks the access to the hoist and takes up cabin space. Genius!

Bingo, brother...

HH-60H Gunship: Right GAU-17 (4000 rds, swings out to allow access to cabin), left M-240 (short travel pintle), left stub wing, M-299, Hellfire x 4, right external aux tank, left external aux tank, 5600 pounds of gas. Two pilots, two gunners, full range of fire forward and aft, and enough cabin space for 8 personnel.

MH-60S Armed Helo: Right/left ESSS wings, M-299 x 2 and Hellfire x 8, window mounted M-240 x 2 (limited field of fire), cabin door mounted GAU-21 (limited field of fire), 2200 pounds of gas internal, 3400 with internal tank. Configuration requires two pilots and four gunners for full range of fire forward and aft, and there's virtually no cabin space with this config. Access to cabin is hindered by GAU-21 installation.

Double doors don't mean much when you can't get in the cabin. Carrying four gunners to have full range of fire is pointless. Pave Hawks mount .50 in the forward gunners windows, and don't use ESSS wings. However, they use GAU-17 most often because high rate of fire and quick target suppression. Most other SOF rotary units use GAU-17, as well. No one uses Hellfire.

Wish we could get a few upgrades for the Hotel; updated chaff bucket system, EGI, and Rockwell/Collins SOAR cockpit (heck...even the Coasties MH-60T has it).

Teams do not prefer the H over the S....but they do request 84 by name. Most guys just want a ride.

H-60H was the cheapest/fastest way to get 85 back online, and the Firehawk name will bring recognition as a SOF squadron. Fleet didn't want to give up the Block 3's, and it's not mature enough yet to slide into the role of the HH-60H. Hotel is ancient, but gets the job done.

 

[hscs]

H-60H was the cheapest/fastest way to get 85 back online, and .

And this ($) is what matters to big Navy the most when you aren't dealing with Hornets or Aegis.....

 

[helolumpy]

And this ($) is what matters to big Navy the most when you aren't dealing with Hornets or Aegis.....

Actually it wasn't a money issue per se, it was a 'what gets the squadron operational fastest' decision.

If they waited for Block 3 SIERRAs, then it will impact the fleet transition or 85 goes to war without Block 3's.

If they get the HOTELs that the active duty fleet was no longer needing, then you get 85 into the fight two to three years sooner than waiting on Block 3's to be delivered in sufficient quantity so the squadron could be operational.

The decision was not based on money but what would be best for the needs of the warfighter.

 

[xmid]

ASUW and Anti Piracy? Not to mention that, depending on what exactly you are doing in the SOF arena, you could always role with one GAU and pick up fires support.

Has the GAU-21 been fired in anger from a MH60S?

 

[Gatordev]

Can someone give a one-line difference between the GAU-16 and the GAU-21? Is it the mount or are the internals markedly different? I'm not putting a lot of stock on what Wikipedia says.

 

[wlawr005]

GAU-21 has a shorter barrel and a higher rate of fire.

 

[SH-60OB]

Don't lead yourselves down the road - we screwed up and did not buy the mount - what is a primary mission of every Navy helo? - SAR. And the GAU 21 in the right door blocks the access to the hoist and takes up cabin space. Genius!

While I agree that if there is a SAR it becomes the primary mission, it is one of 8 secondary missions for the Romeo. Like it or not the bird was built as a SSC asset and squadrons manned and equiped that way so while we can and will do it, SAR is not a primary mission.

 

[illinijoe05]

While I agree that if there is a SAR it becomes the primary mission, it is one of 8 secondary missions for the Romeo. Like it or not the bird was built as a SSC asset and squadrons manned and equiped that way so while we can and will do it, SAR is not a primary mission.

53's dont ever really do the SAR thing either.

 

[MasterBates]

53's dont ever really do the SAR thing either.

Mostly because survivors like being able to stay afloat.

 

[BusyBee604]

While I agree that if there is a SAR it becomes the primary mission,

Excellent point, to emphasize this...I once launched on a VERY major, politically sensitive coordinated strike (first time Hanoi/Haiphong petroleum storage facility targets authorized by Washington - June '66). Shortly after rendezvous and enroute t0ward "feet dry", Haiphong strike cancelled and diverted to provide RESCAP cover for a downed A-6 crew down just offshore Vinh. One A-4 RESCAP Pilot shot down during the operation. The 2 pilots involved were both rescued by the same Helo, A-6 B/N never recovered (KIA).

Point being: Whatever your main/secondary assigned mission may be; it could be trumped at any instant by a SAR assignment. Saving lives is PRI ONE!
BzB

 

[busdriver]

Bingo, brother...

Pave Hawks mount .50 in the forward gunners windows, and don't use ESSS wings. However, they use GAU-17 most often because high rate of fire and quick target suppression.

I much prefer the .50 cal over the minigun. The extra range is a real bonus. Guys will talk about faster rounds on target due to a lighter weapon, but once the adrenaline starts flowing when you're getting shot at it might as well be a broom stick. ESSS wings block fields of fire in the LZ to an unacceptable degree. If you're a straight up attack aircraft like a DAPs, so be it, but if you have to slow down and land, not acceptable.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Detailer roadshow came through Jax yesterday. Straight from the horse's mouth, HSL/HSM bubbas will no longer be eligible to apply for a spot at 84 or 85, apparently due to numbers of HSC guys available to fill billets and the HSL/HSM bubbas don't have the "skill set" inherent without a bunch of extra training needed.

 

[RobLyman]

Do HSL/HSM still not fly goggles? What other skill set requires a "bunch" of training?

 

[MasterBates]

I know there is some stuff done there that HSL guys didn't train for when I was one..

But a PMC Det HSC dude isn't going to have those skillsets either. What the HS bubbas do.. It's not rocket surgery.

Reeks of cronyism. Just my take.