Hands Free Refueling

[Flash]

Look ma, no hands! Would you trust it?

View attachment FA-18.bmp

Video: http://www.darpa.mil/body/news/current/AARD_FLT_778.wmv

Article/Press Release (PDF): http://www.darpa.mil/body/news/current/aard.pdf

 

[scoober78]

Cool from a technical point of view....but I gotta ask...

WHY? Haven't we been doing this for years by hand?

 

[A4sForever]

It's ultimately headed for UCAV's, right ??? Then ... no problem. I'd do the test. I'd just rather do it myself, hand's on, on a day-to-day basis ...

We got so good at air-to-air refueling ... AirWing join-ups and fuel consolidations (do it quickly), hawking the ball, diving down, sliding in, fast plugs, day/night/ 1000' or less at night over the ship in IFR/VFR WX combinations over the ship ... that I would have had no problem riding this "system" in, Day VFR as depicted, believing I would have time to go hand's on and break away in extremis .... you gotta have faith in your gear.



And do you think you're gonna live forever, in any case .... ???

 

[Brett327]

F no I wouldn't trust it. Talk about wasted money on R & D.

Yeah, just wait until you're in the shiznit in bad WX in a low state. tanking can be some of the most demanding flying we do, especially at night on NVGs with lights out, so anything to improve your chances is a good thing. If you think it's such a waste of funds, why don't you give back your auto trim and fancy fly by wire while you're at it. Bottom line, it's progress.

Brett

 

[Brett327]

The KA-6... man that thing held a butt load of gas. Like 27000 #'s!

That doesn't sound right. Even a Prowler w/ 5 drops (unheard of) can only carry ~25K, and that's w/o a buddy store. Can anyone confirm that (A-4s)?

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

That doesn't sound right. Even a Prowler w/ 5 drops (unheard of) can only carry ~25K, and that's w/o a buddy store. Can anyone confirm that (A-4s)?

Brett

Well, if memory serves, without pulling out the 'ol NATOPS, which is buried somewhere in my A-6 parachute bag in the garage, right next to the A-4 parachute bag in the garage ..... the KA-6D carried @ 16,000# internal and up to 10,000# in the drops/D-704 store ... soooooooooooooooooo .... on a "normal" cycle we had 10,000# to give and @ 16,000# for Momma and the kids ...

You COULD transfer more than the dedicated 10,000 external in an emergency ... but that was the plan --- 10,000# to "give" on any "given" hop. Again, all numbers subject to time and senility ...

Having come from an A-4/A-6 "fuel state" (mental) , that could explain why I always liked the @ 350,000# of JP on the 747 ... little to "give"; lots to "keep".

 

[ChuckMK23]

I always wondered why we continue to have an air wing concept that requiers AAR/Tanking being organic to the airwing (with organic aircraft) - which means taking away aircraft that should be carrying bombs - and tiny aircraft doing ancient probe and drogue technology.

SOmehow I think the AF has, at least from a concept of ops perspective, the AAR thing down...

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Brett327]

I always wondered why we continue to have an air wing concept that requiers AAR/Tanking being organic to the airwing (with organic aircraft) - which means taking away aircraft that should be carrying bombs - and tiny aircraft doing ancient probe and drogue technology.

SOmehow I think the AF has, at least from a concept of ops perspective, the AAR thing down...

Thoughts anyone?

You're not going to get a big USAF tanker on station for every flight ops cycle. There needs to be gas available for the recovery and the flexibility in case things change. Bottom line, boat ops require organic tanking assets. That's not likely to change any time soon.

Brett

 

[squorch2]

Yeah, I thought the organic tanking capability was for recovery, not as a replacement for the KCs.

 

[larbear]

If you think it's such a waste of funds, why don't you give back your auto trim and fancy fly by wire while you're at it. Bottom line, it's progress.

Brett

What is auto trim all about? Do all hornets have it or just the supers?

 

[A4sForever]

I always wondered why we continue to have an air wing concept that requiers AAR/Tanking being organic to the airwing .....SOmehow I think the AF has, at least from a concept of ops perspective, the AAR thing down... Thoughts anyone?

Disagree ... even with worldwide AF assets "available" these days ... when you're flying on/off the ship ... the only thing you can rely on is the ship and the Air Wing.

When the sh!t hits the fan and you need a tanker NOW .... you can launch the Air Wing ready tanker in @ 5 minutes off the roof ... how do you think that stacks up against a KC-10 that's 10 hours away ....???

PLUS .... do you REALLY think any Air Force KC-anything is going to be able to support a strike group going "in close/in harm's way" or respond to a "hawk the aircraft on the Ball" call some dark and stormy night at the blunt end of USS BOAT ... and be @ 500 ' with the hose streamed in his 11'O'clock position when he bolters at "Oh Sh!t" fuel ????

I don't think so ....

 

[HUDcripple]

Yes, I would trust it, but be ready to take over manual when the computer decides to try and kill you.
Will it be able to get you into a swinging basket in rough air, or handle the KC-135? Staying in a long hose isn't exactly the tough part of AAR.
At the end of a 6-hour mission it would be great to let the jet get gas for you.
Kind of like a mode-1 approach: hands on stick and throttles to take over if "george" screws the pooch, but kind of nice on the midnight-30 recovery.

 

[Xtndr50boom]

I can't say I'm a big fan of George doing the AR, but I'll keep an open mind until we find out how well he performs in turbies. At the very least it'll lessen the amount of jokes made at the receiver's expense when they miss the basket for the 3rd time in a row

 

[A4sForever]

I can't say I'm a big fan of George doing the ....At the very least it'll lessen the amount of jokes made at the receiver's expense when they miss the basket for the 3rd time in a row

Don't know what parallel universe you sit and refuel in ... but Navy A-4 and A-6 drivers don't miss ... ever.

 

[Xtndr50boom]

Don't know what parallel universe you sit and refuel in ... but Navy A-4 and A-6 drivers don't miss ... ever.

And where did I say A-4 and A-6 folks miss the basket? :icon_wink

On the off-chance that A-6 guys would ever miss, I hope they're more graceful about it than some of the EA guys I've seen; "Can you guys slow down 10 more knots?" Sure thing, want a hot towel too?