Exactly, shot placement is the best friggin way to make anyone go down. Practically any bullet in the vitals, except for maybe a .22, will make someone go down fast. However, in the heat of shooting most people can't hit it. A 9mm doesn't have the energy for an off shot to stop someone completely.
Neither does any practical handgun round. A .45 to the arm won't "knock" a person down, despite how many times it's quoted. Pistol bullets are "weak" (relatively speaking). They're not energy monsters, unless you're shooting some of the large bore hunting cartridges.
Here's an example. Before I joined the Navy I worked with my local police department. While I didn't actually witness the shooting, one guy had to put 5 rounds of 9mm into a dude wacked out on meth. His partner, carrying a .45, put one in the next guy's chest, went down with one shot. Again, I didn't see the shooting but I read the report.
Anecdotal at best. If that .45 was another 9mm bullet, I'm going to put money on it that he would have gone down just the same. A person already being shot with 5 bullets and then taking a 6th is hardly scientific data. We both know that a person on drugs will not respond the same as someone who is sober. The fear of death, the reaction to being shot, etc etc aren't there or are altered.
The biggest factor in the lethality of a cartridge is muzzle energy and the ability to leave an exit wound, specifically the size of that hole. A 9mm can exit, but because of it's smaller muzzle energy, the exit wound is a lot smaller, if it even exits. A .45 will blow a hole about the size of a barn door out the back, which pretty much screws anyone who gets hit by it.
Exit wounds are fantastic for bleeding out and they WILL kill someone eventually if untreated... but not ideal for self-defense. You want ALL of the bullet's energy transfered to the target. If the bullet exits, it has failed to do so. There is a lot to be said about temporary wound cavities and other effects, but you do not see those with handgun bullets.
I carry the .357 Sig round. It actually uses the same bullet size as a 9mm, but because of the pressures and powder grains used in the cartridge, the muzzle energy comes pretty dang close if not equal to a .45 (a.ka. bigger exit hole). Another reason I carry the .357 Sig is because I own a 9mm that I like to plink with so I don't have to buy two seperate bullet types when reloading.
The desired effect for the 357sig cartridge was to match a .357 Magnum out of a 4" barrel. Much more energy than a .45.
Smart way to do reloading there, never thought about that.
In addition, being on the Navy shooting team, I've met countless shooters, actual guys who have experienced actual combat shooting, who sing the praises of a .45 versus a 9mm.
And all of that is crap compared to the civilian world. Regular military will only use FMJ. Yes, it's very true that 9mm is not a good person stopper in FMJ bullets, this is a function of its design... it was designed to penetrate and that's exactly what it does. I believe the statistics for a "one shot stop" for FMJ are 55% of 9mm FMJ and 75% for .45 FMJ.
Compare this to a good JHP bullet that you should be carrying in a CCW pistol. 9mm will see about a 97% rate and .45 will see a 98% rate. Not much difference to speak of.
As for military and ballistics? How about Marines that truly believe the 5.56mm bullet tumbles in FLIGHT? I've heard that countless times from Infantry Marines. Sad.
GIs in Europe in WWII wanted Lugers because 9mm had more capacity, could carry more ammo, and were more controllable. The Germans wanted .45s because of bigger bullets. It ebbs and flows. Ebbs and flows.
Say what you will, 9mm doesn't pack what's needed. Never will, unless you're an ace shot that puts a round between the eyes or through the heart every time. Why else is the military trying to go back to the .45 now? If the 9mm was good enough, why change?
You're drinking too much koolaid. Look at the statistics with JHP bullets (what you and I would use) instead of FMJ (what military uses). It makes a HUUUUGE difference. Don't listen to the "stories" or god forbid most gun magazines (they're so bad). The data is out there.
My point about the derringer was that if you want the ultimate of concealability then get one. It's small enough to stick in your shoe, if needed.
Yes, very true, it's the ultimate in concealability. I agree. That being said, I would never, ever recommend a derringer to anyone but the more experienced shooter.
Finally, what's with the friggin hostility here? I'm trying to post good advice that I've garnered over the past 15 years of my shooting career. If you guys who shoot recreationally have issues with it then so be it, but my opinions come from countless years spent on a range putting lead on target.
No hostility, but I'm tired of the bad gouge out there. You may be an experienced shooter, and I'll believe it, but I think you have some misconceptions. I'm not trying to insult you, but being a police officer doesn't hold credit with me as far as knowledge of ballistics and firearms go. I'll give you one example of why (I have a few) so you understand. Asking a police officer what model firearm he's carrying (it was Glock, but didn't know which one)... answer? "I think it's a S&W or something. Maybe a Colt". How about an LAPD officer, on TELEVISION, during a range qualification, her pistol jams and she admits the last time she cleaned it was ONE YEAR ago. She then giggled about it. LAPD, nice... one place you have a good chance of using a firearm as a police officer. The examples go on of bad gouge. A SWAT officer calling a revolver a semi-automatic. Fun huh?
So no hostility, but I don't agree with what you're saying and I'm going to squash bad gouge when I see it. There are many ignorant people on here as far as this topic goes.
That being said, welcome to the board, we always need more shooters.
P.S. Some data for you:
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr +P+ 9mm (my defensive load)
- 1250 ft/s muzzle velocity
- 440 ft-lbs muzzle energy
- 10" minimum penetration
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr .45ACP (also a load of mine)
- 885 ft/s muzzle velocity
- 400 ft-lbs muzzle energy
- 10.5" minimum penetration
Winchester Super-X 145gr .357 Magnum Silvertip (you guessed it... another of mine)
- 1290 ft/s muzzle velocity
- 535 ft-lbs muzzle energy
- No penetration data (I'll bet you it's a lot more than .45 or 9mm
)
and they feel very secure to me. Great value for the price. (usually less than 30 bucks)
Seems this might be a real problem, especially for our fairer sex carriers.
