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Getting Fit

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perchul

Registered User
well kimphil I won't argue with your post other then to say that over 70% of NYC officers live on Long Island and are only really familiar with the territory that is their beat is in (sorry, being a NY'er really makes me extend this point beyond what it needs to be) I haven't really seen the advatange of having more upper body strength for reducing my runtime, and as kimphil pointed out its been a slight disadvantage. I however do have friends who have worked out longer then me that have overcome this to gain very strong run times (3 miles in the 15's easy) it just takes work and I would rather promote great strength and great endurance in the end because both can be achieved you just need your body to adjust. If your humping a 80lb pack your going to need strength because you sure as hell won't get it from endurance, if your going just for getting a great entrance pft then do what kimphil tells you....if you think you have the time to make yourself into a great Marine then do f**ing everything you'll never regret the extra strength.
 
How do you get lost in NYC, that is NYC proper? I lived in Queens and I found Manhattan pretty easy to navigate. It's hard to get lost in n area made of rectangular sections when you have a map and you have a little common sense.

Anyway, on the big vs. small subject...just remember that big ass boxer Riddick Bowe couldn't make it through Marine boot, however you choose to interpret that.
 

kimphil

Registered User
Dismissing the analogy with personal anecdotes is off topic and misses the point entirely. The point of the directions analogy was to illustrate how people on this site are willing, even with the best of intentions, to give advice, even if that advice isn't necessarily good for the people receiving it.

I was warning USMC candidates to be careful and defer to their OSO and peers instead of relying on the info on this site. It's easy to drift to the Navy side of this site and read tips, some useful, some not. It's also easy for the Navy people to come over to the Marine side and dispense advice.

What's the problem with that after all? The Navy has a demanding OCS. It's run by Marine DIs so what works for Navy should work for the Marine Corps after all.

However, there are more than enough differences between the two OCSs that what may be okay or work in Navy will not necessarily benefit candidates interested in the Marines. Now if certain people want to interpret that as chauvinism or take personal offense, that's there problem. And when certain people brag about their qualifications to dispense advice and imply that you ignore it at your own peril, that just reinforces the point I was making -- people give advice, which not taken in the proper context and even given with only the best intentions, that might be counterproductive to USMC candidates.

I disagree with perchul about the PFT. Go for a great inventory PFT. However, a 300 PFT isn't a guarantee of success at USMC OCS, there are a lot of factors that come into play. On the other hand, being able to do a 300 PFT and being fit for USMC OCS isn't mutually exclusive either.
 

kimphil

Registered User
Originally posted by vegita1220
How do you get lost in NYC, that is NYC proper? I lived in Queens and I found Manhattan pretty easy to navigate. It's hard to get lost in n area made of rectangular sections when you have a map and you have a little common sense.

That's easy. West Village.
 

perchul

Registered User
What is it you disagree with me about? I maybe misreading my own post but I don't think I said anything to the contrary about your feelings on the 300 pft...now back to what this thread is really about NYC. There isn't any such thing as NYC proper, NYC is five buroughs....freaking Manhatten gets all the love.
 

jaerose

Registered User
You're right, certain people (me) were obviously bragging about their qualifications and it's easy to see how they were implying that if you don't take their (my) advice then you're facing immenent doom. Oh wait, I don't see that at all. Actually, I was just trying to make a point about USN/USMC personnel being fit to give advice about the subject after your cuts at the Navy. Also, I don't recommend any supplements to anyone. If someone's got their mind made up to take them, then I feel that they should at least understand what their taking and what it does. Personally, I need to take extra protein in order to spare muscle tissue when I perform a lot of cardio and try to lose some weight.

I do agree with you 100% that the best person to ask about how to excel in the USMC PFT is someone who's done exactly that. If you'll notice, I don't tell people how to properly execute their pullups, how to perform at their best on the 3 mile run, or anything like that. If someone asks how to gain a little muscle, then I try to help. If someone's trying to slash a little bodyfat, then I'll try to help them as well. You probably didn't notice that I say not to use fat-burners etc. without consulting a doctor first and that you don't really need them because they tend to be the 'lazy' way to go.

As far as your point, "people give advice, which not taken in the proper context and even given with only the best intentions, that might be counterproductive to USMC candidates," if a member of the USMC dispenses advice on this forum and it's taken out of context then it can be counter productive just as easily as advice given by anyone else. For instance, an USMC DI could give the perfect suggestion for acing the PFT, but if the recruit goes out and overtrains, then that will be counterproductive as well. Either way the individual is going to have to find out what works best for them and then properly execute their plan.

I will say that the post where you offer the logic behind your reasoning was a lot better and more constructive than just saying that you wouldn't take certain advice because it's not from a Marine. Plus, that seems a little less inflammatory. I would personally like to hear what you do to improve your run time and what kind of work out you do because I appreciate advice from runners who are better than myself. As you can probably tell, I was/am a sprinter and so I'm always looking to improve my ability to run for distance.

JR

Oh, I've never ingested shark urine and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else, either =)
 

usmcnole

Marine SNA, Advanced, HT ?
Hmmm.....interesting discussion going on here. While I am new to this board, and you guys don't know me, I have a few things to say on the weight and strength issue, and I'll try to examine the pro's and con's. Here we go...

Currently I am 6'3, 230 lbs., about 9% BF. About a month ago, I was about 15 pounds heavier, and about 5% BF higher (maybe less, i'm not sure, but i wasn't cut by any means). Since I graduated from college and have been training back at home to prepare for OCC-184, I know for a fact that you can train your body to run faster even at a heavier weight...but to a certain extent. I have been running for the past 6 months pretty consistently, and at a weight of 245 lbs., I was getting faster, but it was murder on my joints, connective tissues, and my mind. Everyday I dredded running because of how I felt afterwards. While I sucked it up and just kept running, (and got faster consequently), I didn't feel good about it, and there came a point that I knew I NEEDED to lose weight: muscle and fat.

Since I've been home, I've been eating a little less-still just as often, just not filling up like I used to-and have dropped a lot of weight. Since I've dropped weight, my pull-ups are constantly getting better, push-ups increasing and my run time is dropping by the day. But with all things in life there is a point of diminishing returns. I could drop weight continuously and I'm sure my run will get ridiculously low, but when the humps come, my loss of strength will hurt me as well. So what does this all mean? Look at Special Ops guys if you really want to know. Being enlisted I've had the privelage of knowing a few personally. While they are all in amazing shape, they are not huge, but they are also not sticks either. They are a perfect balance of strength, power, muscle endurance, and cardio endurance. These guys can go all day long, for days at a time, on little to no sleep, and little to no food. And they aren't able to do that with just lifting weights and massing out, nor are they able to do that with just 100% cardio or just a few basic exercises like pull-ups and sit-ups. There comes a point in the balance that functional strength (practical strength, in the field, on the O course)is sacrificed as a result of increased cardiovascular endurance, and vice-versa.

Listen to your body, pay attention to why something is hurting, or may be harder than it should, and vary your workouts to include strength and power building exercises(lifting weights), muscle endurance exercises(pull-ups, push-ups, etc.), and cardio. With a good variety and balance in your workouts, your body will figure out the necessary amount of muscle it needs in order to become more efficient. That's just the way it works. In my workouts I blend pull-ups, push-ups, crunches, dips, and other endurance building exercises into my lifting routine, and you know what? They've both been improving as a result. My whole body feels lighter, stronger, and sturdier. So, balance is the key. Put, equal effort into all aspects of your body's physical condition and you'll be golden. That's just my 2 cents from my experiences. I've been a pretty big guy for a few years, and there are quite a few things bad about it. But there are also some things that I will try to maintain that I know for a fact help me a bunch too. Take my thoughts for what they are worth. They are merely meant to help.

usmcnole
 

kevin

Registered User
im not sure exactly what you just said cause i never learned to read. but i'll reiterate (i think) that it's quite possible to be built, have power, and endurance. there is no cutoff for these things (a certain weight, etc). at the extreme ends, they dont seem to jive...ie, none of the kenyans who are by far and away the best runners in the world weigh 200lbs...no bodybuilder is going to win a marathon....no kenyan will out power a lifter.....but this is not where most of us live. it is very feasible to have all those things wrapped up into one. the big "secret" is improving all at the same time. there are many people who are sized like bodybuilders, lift a ****load of weight and can run and run and swim, etc. it takes longer and it's harder, but very do-able. (ie...ufc fighters, many of whom are built like tanks, have beast like endurance otherwise they get killed). to say weightlifting or massbuilding or whatever is worthless doesnt sound like the most "sound advice" to me, especially from someone who doesnt do it.
 

usmcnole

Marine SNA, Advanced, HT ?
I'm not sure if you're replying to my post Kevin...I think you are. When you said "to say weightlifting or massbuilding or whatever is worthless doesnt sound like the most "sound advice" to me, especially from someone who doesnt do it", I surely hope you're not referring to me. I have been lifting for 7 years consistently, and consistently hard. I was on track to do a bodybuilding show this past spring, but couldn't do that and prepare for the PFT and OCS stuff at the same time. I agree that weightlifting is a good way to build strength, and that if you do that in accordance with endurance exercises as well as cardio, you will build all aspects up together. It just takes longer. That's all I was saying, so on that we agree, but I'm not sure who you directed that comment about "weightlifting being worthless....from someone who hasn't done it." Obivously that isn't me, and if you knew me you'd know that I don't judge something I've never done or know nothing about. Just trying to clarify what you were saying.

usmcnole
 

kevin

Registered User
usmcnole...no i wasnt referring to you, that comment was in reference to kimphil. you and i are definitely on the same page. sorry about the confusion, i didnt do well in english all around (apahrentlie i kant rite gud ither).
 

jaerose

Registered User
usmcnole,

Those were some good posts and you make good points. I agree with you on the losing weight helping your running...I did the same thing. It's just much easier on the joints. Also, I don't think kevin was talking about you.

JR
 

kevin

Registered User
jaerose, why dont you just run yourself right down there to hell and stay there. sorry, im really bored today.
 

kimphil

Registered User
Kevin,

I think you missed the second point I made. The extra mass is useless at OCS because you will not be able to maintain it there. Nobody goes to USMC OCS and comes out bigger. You probably will not have access to a weight room, you'll probably will have no desire to work out with what little leisure time you have, and you won't be able to consume enough calories to prevent your muscles from being broken down.

No doubt there are people in the fleet as big as linebackers that can run a 300 PFT. You may even be one of them. More power to you. My point was that training to be one of those linebackers, given the extra effort everyone acknowledges it takes, along with the disadvantage of the extra mass, only to piss it away at OCS is useless. Once you get your commission, if you want to be as big as a house and it doesn't affect your PFT, go for it.
 
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