Get your numbers right sailor!

[A4sForever]

So why isn't it making any bigger news stories beyond the post editorial?

Because this is 2010 and our people are clueless ... they've 'drifted' for the past 30 years, military-wise.

Suggestion: the 'volunteer', PC military doesn't cut it -- no matter what any of you think.

A possible (probable) solution: bring back the DRAFT ... no exceptions -- EVERYONE 'goes' ... so most (or many) US males/females can serve their country in a meaningful way and participate in the only thing that 'really works' in the US Government: which would be ... the US Military ...

 

[magnetfreezer]

Looks like a tempest in a teapot. Out goes a data call for a list of "diverse" officers with high potential, and what plans are set in place for career progression. Most supervisors should have an idea as to their people's desire as far as career progression goes, and they should have provided some career counseling and have aided in getting them ready for the next step in their career desires (schools, training, etc.). If this came to me I would say "ENS Smith wants to be an engineer and LTJG Jones wants to enter the Safety Program; I've counseled Smith that he should pursue graduate programs and improve his GRE scores and I'm working with the XO to get Jones a job as the Ground Safety Officer.

Of course I could say that about the folks in my department, no matter what color, but this data call doesn't ask for anything else.

Why is the list close hold and not part of the SECNAV tracker? I'm sure that a normal list of the high performers and their career tracks like you've described could be maintained by BUPERS without fear of media blowback if it didn't select people by any criteria other than merit.

 

[gparks1989]

A possible (probable) solution: bring back the DRAFT ... no exceptions -- EVERYONE 'goes' ... so most (or many) US males/females can serve their country in a meaningful way and participate in the only thing that 'really works' in the US Government: which would be ... the US Military ...

While I agree with the principle (i.e. everyone should serve and would benefit from service...no contest from me), the problem is there are a good number of people who simply don't want to serve and aren't invested in it. For exampled, I've seen a whole slew of people enter the NROTC program for the WRONG reasons. Either they wanted the money, they thought it was JROTC and wanted to walk around in uniform or whatever reason. These people didn't get far and a lot of time and energy was wasted trying to get them to see the light (that NROTC is a sweet effin' deal), but they NEVER did. My fear with the draft is that if you brought people into the Services hating it and not wanting to invest in it that they would be a danger to others, unit cohesion and the ability of the military to focus on the mission. Plus loopholes (education, religion) would mean that only the most disadvantaged would be forced to serve...wildly unfair and defeats the purpose of the draft IMHO. Just my 2 cents

 

[helolumpy]

Why is the list close hold and not part of the SECNAV tracker? I'm sure that a normal list of the high performers and their career tracks like you've described could be maintained by BUPERS without fear of media blowback if it didn't select people by any criteria other than merit.

Doesn't this then defeat the whole point of our selection process for promotion and command?

The purpose of the board is to review each candiates career to that point and make a determination about the potential for future service. By creating a 'list' you then start having Animal Farm. All candiates for consideration are equal; but some are more equal than others.

Who controls who's on this list of high performers?? Is it the community manager at Millington? You then have people fighting to be placed on this 'list' and it will come down to politics of who makes this 'list' and who doesn't.

Will certain billets then be coded by NPC for 'list only' personnel??? "Sorry, you can't get a Flag Aide job, you're not on the list". It will be like trying to get into a night club on TV. You'll have the Detailers as the doormen....

The problem is simple; the military has a mission and that is to protect and defend the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. By creating a protected class of individuals (some may argue that this already exists with the USNA protection society and so forth) you take the meritocracy out of the career progression that has worked for 200+ years.

Creating any form of list of 'stellar performers' is in direct odds to how the military should operate. We have selection boards for the sole purpose of culling the herd and finding those officers who will excel in their next assignment.

While I may not agree with A-4's that this is the DEATH of the Officer Corps, I feel he's much closer to 'spot on' than your belief that having a 'list' of stellar performers is a good thing.

 

[helolumpy]

While I agree with the principle (i.e. everyone should serve and would benefit from service...no contest from me), the problem is there are a good number of people who simply don't want to serve and aren't invested in it.

They all don't have to go into the military. How about AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps? Everyone should be forced to serve their country to help ensure it's survival; no free-riders!
If they choose not to work in the military, then they could go to some other organization within the United States that will better the country. Hell, they could walk along the highway and pick up trash, help paint schools, etc.

Being an citizen is a right, but everyone should participate in some form or fashion. We don't need everyone coming into the military, there's not enought jobs for everyone. But everyone should be required to serve their country in some manner. It may make people appreciate what we have more than what we as a country are like today.

 

[Fog]

From a guy who served on active duty from '65 to '71 & in RVN, you do NOT want a military (certainly an army) that is made up largely of conscripts. It can be, and often is, a disaster. Ask anyone who was on the Constellation in Nov '72 when they essentially had a mutiny on board. An all-volunteer force is the only way to run our military.

 

[EODDave]

Anybody else here wonder why the bureau needs a photo of us for promotion to 0-4 and above? Why do you need a picture of me? You have my awards on file, can see that I pass the PRT and height/weight limit? So why does the bureau need a photo? A buddy of mine didnt make 0-4 this board because...... Yep no picture. Aint that a bitch.

 

[gparks1989]

They all don't have to go into the military. How about AmeriCorps or the Peace Corps? Everyone should be forced to serve their country to help ensure it's survival; no free-riders!
If they choose not to work in the military, then they could go to some other organization within the United States that will better the country. Hell, they could walk along the highway and pick up trash, help paint schools, etc.

Being an citizen is a right, but everyone should participate in some form or fashion. We don't need everyone coming into the military, there's not enought jobs for everyone. But everyone should be required to serve their country in some manner. It may make people appreciate what we have more than what we as a country are like today.

THAT is something I could get onboard with. I believe Obama et al had floated an idea like that. I think it would be a great thing to put into action.

 

[helolumpy]

Anybody else here wonder why the bureau needs a photo of us for promotion to 0-4 and above? Why do you need a picture of me? You have my awards on file, can see that I pass the PRT and height/weight limit? So why does the bureau need a photo? A buddy of mine didnt make 0-4 this board because...... Yep no picture. Aint that a bitch.

Regardless of whether they want the officer corps to look like recruiting posters or not; it's a requirement.

If you buddy can not follow specific simple direction and get a photo taken (for free) and send it into Millington, then why should the Navy consider this person for promotion to a leadership position?

 

[bert]

I can't really muster any outrage over this: each community already has a close-hold list of their players and golden-children. Those people already get special treatment - access to orders others can't get, PRD/tour length adjustments to keep their timing on track, favorable job assignments, etc. This just means that Big Navy is trying to see how many minorities are on those lists. If you are already one of the boys in your community then the worst that happens is you have one or two extra folks in your mix of players. If you aren't already on your community's list then don't sweat it - any good deals the folks on this new list get weren't going to go to you anyways.

 

[Recovering LSO]

I can't really muster any outrage over this: each community already has a close-hold list of their players and golden-children. Those people already get special treatment - access to orders others can't get, PRD/tour length adjustments to keep their timing on track, favorable job assignments, etc.

Sure. And the people who are on those existing "lists" got there for a reason other than the color of their skin. My community certainly has its "golden children" as you call them. BUT, and this is a big but, they got on that list through superior performance in hard jobs.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

The ramp, deep blue sea and terra firma are all non-discriminatory, they kill soft flesh in fireproof pajamas all the same when you offend them.

Good sticks, great leaders... thats what we need. Anything else is socio-political flatulation.

This isn't the Navy I joined to fight in.

 

[CWJones411]

I'm 25% German, 25% Scottish and 50% English! Talk about diversity. Which special list do I go on?

 

[bert]

Sure. And the people who are on those existing "lists" got there for a reason other than the color of their skin. My community certainly has its "golden children" as you call them. BUT, and this is a big but, they got on that list through superior performance in hard jobs.

Are you really going to argue that every single one of them made it on merit and your community has never greased the skids for somebody who hadn't earned it? I like to think that most of them have (and certainly want to believe that the benefits I got before I jumped ship on my community were earned and not given) but we all know there is a certain percentage that gets a lot further than they should have based on playing the political game, not competence. I'm guessing that this new list isn't going to skew those percentages by any significant margin.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Here's the part you're missing. Until now there was no reason (other than personal bitterness) to believe there was a group of people getting preferential consideration - sure there were always a few stragglers who got moved along further than they should have been. But for the most part if you take an HONEST look at fitreps and performance records you would find that, within the evaluation construct we are forced to work within, the right people have been progressed. Now, however, there really is a list and and its got nothing to do with merit. Its affirmative action by another name.

If the ADMs are so concerned with this they ought to be looking at the underlying problem, why aren't more minorities interested in going to USNA or ROTC schools and then staying Navy? Work on creating a want and not forcing a need.