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French getting another round of "inshallah"

SynixMan said:
You know what this forum needs? More political discussions!
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Dude, come on. If by "political," you mean partisan Internet "Rethuglicans/Dhimmicrats Я teh ghey" bullshit, fine.

If you mean at least semi-cogent geopolitical discussions, well, our profession is nothing more than the continuation of said discussions by violent means, so why not?
 
I find the fear of refugees very disheartening and shameful for a country that strives to set the international example for compassion and the "moral right." As a members of the military, isn't fighting for those who are too weak to fight for themselves part of our mission? Isn't it our duty to protect the innocent from the evil? The United States prides itself on being the "home of the brave" and yet this issue is crippling us in a debate of fear. To close our borders to women, children, families, and the elderly who desperately need our help because we are afraid the enemy might be able to slip a couple people through the cracks of a pretty robust system and then carry out an attack under the robust surveillance of our intelligence, FBI, and Homeland Security measures is simply sad.

France, the country that WAS JUST ATTACKED, has vowed to take in 30,000 refugees. The blood stains and carnage of the most recent atrocity hasn't even been removed from the streets yet, and they are opening their doors to help those who are fleeing the war zone. To sit here in the U.S., with one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, and allow the fear of ISIS to undermine the compassion and humanity of our country is frankly shameful. We are better than this.
 
ProwlerPilot said:
I find the fear of refugees very disheartening and shameful for a country that strives to set the international example for compassion and the "moral right." As a members of the military, isn't fighting for those who are too weak to fight for themselves part of our mission? Isn't it our duty to protect the innocent from the evil? The United States prides itself on being the "home of the brave" and yet this issue is crippling us in a debate of fear. To close our borders to women, children, families, and the elderly who desperately need our help because we are afraid the enemy might be able to slip a couple people through the cracks of a pretty robust system and then carry out an attack under the robust surveillance of our intelligence, FBI, and Homeland Security measures is simply sad.

France, the country that WAS JUST ATTACKED, has vowed to take in 30,000 refugees. The blood stains and carnage of the most recent atrocity hasn't even been removed from the streets yet, and they are opening their doors to help those who are fleeing the war zone. To sit here in the U.S., with one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, and allow the fear of ISIS to undermine the compassion and humanity of our country is frankly shameful. We are better than this.
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The colossal fuck up underway by European governments doesn't obligate us to follow their lead.

I agree that the refugee issue is overblown as it relates to them coming to the U.S. There are already some processes in place, although more are necessary. Europe, on the other hand just threw the door open. Accepting millions of impoverished predominantly Muslim, predominantly young, predominantly male refugees is not a recipe for stability.
 
True, we haven't seen coordinated terror attacks from refugees since 9/11. But we haven't before had the numbers of refugees in mass, pressure from the President to admit a large number within a period that could compromise the vetting process, or a terror organization who actually stated they would use the refugee flood to slip in terrorists. Different times. The enemy has stated a change in tactics to exploit circumstances yet we are unwilling to review the change in threat or make reasonable adjustments to our defenses.

Lots of people used to suggest the only threat was young middle eastern men. Most have wised up. Women have been terrorists. Children trained. So are we going to display the same backward looking attitude? No one ever flew planes into buildings. Women don't blow themselves up. Children aren't capable of terror attacks. And refugees have never been known to be terrorists. Great I feel better.
 
wink said:
True, we haven't seen coordinated terror attacks from refugees since 9/11. But we haven't before had the numbers of refugees in mass, pressure from the President to admit a large number within a period that could compromise the vetting process, or a terror organization who actually stated they would use the refugee flood to slip in terrorists. Different times. The enemy has stated a change in tactics to exploit circumstances yet we are unwilling to review the change in threat or make reasonable adjustments to our defenses.

Lots of people used to suggest the only threat was young middle eastern men. Most have wised up. Women have been terrorists. Children trained. So are we going to display the same backward looking attitude? No one ever flew planes into buildings. Women don't blow themselves up. Children aren't capable of terror attacks. And refugees have never been known to be terrorists. Great I feel better.
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In FY13, the United States admitted 69,926 refugees into our country. I fail to believe we can't process 10,000 from Syria.

http://www.state.gov/j/prm/releases/statistics/

Do you believe that the State Department, CIA, FBI, and DHS is not adapting to the threat? Why is closing our doors to the world and turning a cold shoulder to innocents who desperately need our help the only way? And by this rationale, shouldn't we turn off all tourist visas, student visas, and stop all naturalization processes? After all, the Boston bomber got here on a tourist visa, claimed asylum, then became a naturalized citizen. That looks like 3 failures, so we should close our doors to everyone?
 
I am more concerned with the lack of assimilation that these refugee groups pose to us as a culture and society of laws. Specifically the desire to form enclaves separate with sharia laws and maintain their own social order and customs separate doesn't bode well for our melting pot society. There are some interesting studies out there how other immigration waves into our country have assimilated and the US has benefitted as a whole. Paris has even allowed the establishment of sharia courts in their country and basically has Muslim enclaves where they pursue their culture apart from the host nation. That for me is a recipe for failure. I don't have the link handy but earlier this decade the Australian PM told immigrants that they needed to adopt the culture and life of being an Australian or leave. Why can't we do the same and have them speak our language, respect our laws, enfranchise their women and children. Etc. Sadly I think the beliefs and attitudes of this group of immigrants (using a very broad brush) is inimical and counter to our culture and laws.

And I personally don't think we as Americans need to be the solution for all the worlds problems and tragedies.
 
webmaster said:
And I personally don't think we as Americans need to be the solution for all the worlds problems and tragedies.
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I don't think 10,000 of 4,289,792 registered Syrian refugees (0.23% for you math majors) is "the solution for all the world's problems"
 
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ProwlerPilot said:
I don't think 10,000 of 4,289,792 registered Syrian refugees (.0023% for you math majors) is "the solution for all the world's problems"
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When I typed that I knew someone would take it literally. My sentiment was more encompassing along the lines of "treasure and blood" we have spent as a society to make the world a better place.
 
Treetop Flyer said:
Do you really think the KKK's primary motivation or justification is Christianity? Do you really think they are literally interpreting the teachings of Jesus?

ISIS is more or less literally following the guidance of their holy book and spreading their religion through conquest, like their prophet spread it in the beginning. They specifically state that Islam is their motivation and justification.

But you knew that.
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http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad
Last time I checked Jesus didn't order any killings
http://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/1400-years-of-christian-islamic-struggle
 
I continue to be amazed how much generalizations can take hold of the public perception.

Some statistics to chew on:

2010 US Total Population: 309.3M
2010 US Muslim Population: 2.6M (0.8%)
2010 US African - American Population: 38.9M (13%)

Some would argue that the African American population still hasn't fully established itself on equal footing with the rest of American society, and that population is at 13%. Are we really afraid that 0.8% of the population is going to disassemble the constitution, abolish the governing system that has been in place for over 200 years and institute sharia law?

Don't become a victim of fear. Stand up for what is right..... helping people fleeing a war torn country where murder, rape, torture, and more are the standard. Tell ISIS to go screw off! The US shouldn't compromise its values and morals because we are afraid of them.
 
webmaster said:
I am more concerned with the lack of assimilation that these refugee groups pose to us as a culture and society of laws. Specifically the desire to form enclaves separate with sharia laws and maintain their own social order and customs separate doesn't bode well for our melting pot society.
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While I think that is a legitimate worry I don't think it is much of a problem here, especially when it comes to refugees from the Middle East. Why? There simply aren't the numbers and concentrations here. There are concentrations of certain groups in certain parts of the country; Iranians in LA, Kurds in Memphis, Somalis in Minneapolis and Arabs in Michigan, but they are merely drops in the bucket compared to the population of this country and the other groups of immigrants here that far outnumber them. It is a bit different in some parts of Europe where there are much more higher percentages from particular countries or regions like Northern Africans in France or Turks in Germany.

The biggest difference though is that we are a nation of immigrants that has been assimilating immigrants for over 400 years, and there is no ethnic group that is 'American' like there is in Europe. This results in a completely different attitude towards what qualifies one as an 'American' here than other countries where ethnicity plays a role. It is that attitude that has allowed the son of a Kenyan become our President and bunch of children of immigrants be viable contenders to be his successor.

I worked closely with some Americans who had immigrated from the Middle East, Arab and Kurd, and found them to be pretty well assimilated after an average of 20 or so years in the country. Many had come to the US as refugees in the wake of Desert Storm and as a group had done pretty well. What was most striking was that their children not only had assimilated but from what I saw were mostly indistinguishable from an 'average' American kids even in appearance.

On an even more personal level, the experience with bringing my wife into the country was pretty eye-opening as to how extensive and thorough the process was just for a regular visa just for a Canadian. The refugee process is much more extensive.

webmaster said:
Paris has even allowed the establishment of sharia courts in their country and basically has Muslim enclaves where they pursue their culture apart from the host nation. That for me is a recipe for failure. I don't have the link handy but earlier this decade the Australian PM told immigrants that they needed to adopt the culture and life of being an Australian or leave. Why can't we do the same and have them speak our language, respect our laws, enfranchise their women and children. Etc. Sadly I think the beliefs and attitudes of this group of immigrants (using a very broad brush) is inimical and counter to our culture and laws.
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Do you realize we have religious 'courts' in this country? Both Christian and Jewish. They are really more arbitration panels that handle civil matters with the consent of all parties and can't clash with established law, they also don't touch criminal law in any way. 'Sharia courts' in France fall under this category and can't conflict with the government law there.

webmaster said:
And I personally don't think we as Americans need to be the solution for all the worlds problems and tragedies.
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Neither do I but as the world's richest country, one that has not only helped keep the world a little bit safer but benefited from it as well, I think we are obligated to do our part.
 
Hopeful Hoya said:
No, but Old Testament God had no qualms ordering stonings, genocide, death by insects, etc. Just goes to show you the dangers of interpreting ANY religious book literally or taking it as fact.
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If a group starts using the Old Testament as justification for conquest and genocide, I'd feel comfortable calling them Jewish Terrorists.
 
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