French getting another round of "inshallah"

[picklesuit]

Sadly, it seems France is once again a victim of their belief in freedom and their proximity to a bunch of religious fanatics.

Paris shootings: 18 reported killed
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

I'm really sick of these fucking guys. And the PC crap that will follow when the media has nothing else to talk about.

At this point I think we should recognize a dramatic escalation of tactics by militant Islam and a lack of effective defense, with the current protections our constitution provide, against this in our country and others like us.

The only thing we have working in our favor is our "gun culture" in many states. Gun free zones like San Francisco and New York will continue to be susceptible to these sort of attacks.

We need a more thorough willingness of people to accept responsibility for self defense, in a manner that we see in Israel, and an acknowledgement of an active war to extinguish our way of life by an enemy unwilling to worry about "rules of war."

We need to get over the squeamishness of the media over instant, violent, and permanent response to violence perpetrated against us.

End rant, begin discussion.

Pickle

 

[robav8r]

Some reports have the death toll up to 60 now with possible attacks still ongoing . . .

 

[jmcquate]

40 dead, 60 wounded reported just now on France 24.

 

[wink]

Reports are that a law enforcement assault on the theater where hostages are held and being slaughtered is only just now underway. Since Columbine, in the U.S. Law enforcement assumes an "active shooter" response by first responders. We don't wait for the big swat assembly. Patrol officers usually make an immediate entry. Will be interesting to see what lessons are learned from this attack.

 

[picklesuit]

I guess the "JV team" can take down a Russian jetliner and kill dozens in France.

Just gonna leave this here for reference:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/01/27/going-the-distance-david-remnick

 

[Flash]

...The only thing we have working in our favor is our "gun culture" in many states. Gun free zones like San Francisco and New York will continue to be susceptible to these sort of attacks.

We need a more thorough willingness of people to accept responsibility for self defense, in a manner that we see in Israel...

I can't see how a 'gun culture' in some places will help us out. Every able-bodied adult, with some notable exceptions, is required to serve in Israel and many remain in the reserves for years afterwards so the level of training is almost universal as it could be in a country. They are also in a semi-permanent state of war with a small population and pretty small area and accept some serious restrictions that we would likely not tolerate here. Even then though attacks do happen and cause casualties.

Another set of examples are the 'green on blue' attacks in Afghanistan with pretty high casualties in some instances, 9 dead in the worst case, and all the U.S. folks were armed and had basic arms training that while minimal many U.S. gun owners don't even come close to.

Only a well trained response force would be able to counter or just mitigate an attack like this and believe it or not NYC is probably one of the few places where there is a large, competent and well-equipped force that could likely handle this type of situation as well as anyone in the world.

 

[robav8r]

I can't see how a 'gun culture' in some places will help us out.

What we need is a "if you break our laws, fail to assimilate, and fail to contribute to our way of life" statute, then we will fuck you up culture. I know, I know, I'm asking for a lot here . . .

 

[Randy Daytona]

I can't see how a 'gun culture' in some places will help us out.

As we say here in Texas, the terrorists may shoot first but I'll be damned if they get a chance to reload.

 

[Flash]

As we say here in Texas, the terrorists may shoot first but I'll be damned if they get a chance to reload.

I don't think many folks who talk tough like that realize the ferocity and rapidity of some of these attacks. The only incident I can think of like the attacks today here in the U.S. was the 'North Hollywood shootout' in 1997, and it took well armed and trained SWAT personnel to finally take those guys down after a full 44 minutes. [Edit: It took a little more than 30 minutes after the start of the actual shooting to stop the two suspects, 44 minutes was the time from the start of the robbery.]

 

[Brett327]

I don't think many folks who talk tough like that realize the ferocity and rapidity of some of these attacks. The only incident I can think of like the attacks today here in the U.S. was the 'North Hollywood shootout' in 1997, and it took well armed and trained SWAT personnel to finally take those guys down after a full 44 minutes.

I remember that. The perps had ballistic vests and were fucking ruthless and not deterred by counter-fire.

I'm fearful for what this means because, short of radical changes to LE and our security environment, there's not a whole lot western society can do to counter these kinds of attacks. Think of how many night clubs in the U.S. - on any given night, in any given city - would be vulnerable to a group of guys with AKs who wanted to kill a hundred people.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Earlier this year, we had a deputy with a pistol take out 2 terrorists armed with rifles and body armor. Nobody takes hostages anymore so what are your options? That's not bravery and that's not being tough - you are already dead so you having nothing to lose.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...-anti-islam-event-at-garland-isd-facility.ece

 

[Flash]

Well, right down the road earlier this year, we had a deputy with a pistol take out 2 terrorists armed with rifles and body armor. Nobody takes hostages anymore so what are your options? That's not bravery and that's not being tough - you are already dead so you having nothing to lose.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...-anti-islam-event-at-garland-isd-facility.ece

A trained law enforcement officer who was guarding a specific event that had been threatened and wasn't a 'soft' target, the attackers choose poorly. An average person at a restaurant or a club that comes under a surprise attack will almost certainly not react or do as well.

I remember that. The perps had ballistic vests and were fucking ruthless and not deterred by counter-fire.

Not just vest but full body armor, they only got the last one by shooting his unprotected legs.

I'm fearful for what this means because, short of radical changes to LE and our security environment, there's not a whole lot western society can do to counter these kinds of attacks. Think of how many night clubs in the U.S. - on any given night, in any given city - would be vulnerable to a group of guys with AKs who wanted to kill a hundred people.

Unless countries choose to go the Isreali route and make themselves armed camps while severely restricting movement, access and civil liberties there isn't much folks can do. The unfortunate price of living in a free and open society. I think fortunately for us the oceans still provide a buffer that Europe does not have, how effective that buffer will be in the years to come is a good question.

The attacks today provide an interesting counterpoint to the argument about the 'militarization' of the police in this country. The North Hollywood shootout was one of the incidents that provided the impetus for heavier armament and more military-style gear like armored vehicles for many police departments, the fear of attacks like these today has been another.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

A trained law enforcement officer who was guarding a specific event that had been threatened and wasn't a 'soft' target, the attackers choose poorly. An average person at a restaurant or a club that comes under a surprise attack will almost certainly not react or do as well.



Not just vest but full body armor, they only got the last one by shooting his unprotected legs.



Unless countries choose to go the Isreali route and make themselves armed camps while severely restricting movement, access and civil liberties there isn't much folks can do. The unfortunate price of living in a free and open society. I think fortunately for us the oceans still provide a buffer that Europe does not have, how effective that buffer will be in the years to come is a good question.

The attacks today provide an interesting counterpoint to the argument about the 'militarization' of the police in this country. The North Hollywood shootout was one of the incidents that provided the impetus for heavier armament and more military-style gear like armored vehicles for many police departments, the fear of attacks like these today has been another.

The answer isn't more heavily armed police or adoption of a police state, or gun control. It's immigration. Period.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I remember that. The perps had ballistic vests and were fucking ruthless and not deterred by counter-fire.

I'm fearful for what this means because, short of radical changes to LE and our security environment, there's not a whole lot western society can do to counter these kinds of attacks. Think of how many night clubs in the U.S. - on any given night, in any given city - would be vulnerable to a group of guys with AKs who wanted to kill a hundred people.

I agree, what also concerns me is a guy that decides to make himself a human bomb walking into one of those places, you really don't have time to react.

 

[Flash]

The answer isn't more heavily armed police or adoption of a police state, or gun control. It's immigration. Period.

I'm not sure if Timothy McVeigh, Nidal Hasan and others of their ilk would agree or disagree.