Form landing??

[wink]

So I am sitting in my bright silver jet at a major South Texas airport last Friday(to remain nameless in case some one could get in trouble) waiting number one and told to hold for a flight of two T-34s landing. Good deal, I was looking forward to seeing some studs do their thing. But instead of seeing the Turbo Weenies come in at a normal interval, they approached and landed in formation. Now it wasn't much of a formation. It was probably more like a 2-3 second interval, but it wasn't the normal break interval. So did I miss something? Are you guys doing form landings in the T-34 now? I did notice both seats of each aircraft occupied. Maybe they were NFO studs and the pilot instructors decided to amp things up a bit for the challenge. Still not SOP. Am I right? I was always about SOP. Never pushed the limits once myself. Not in Oman, or Singapore, or the PI, or...well never .

 

[zippy]

Funny thing about T-34 Forms is that the Briefing guide, FTI and SOPs and the way things are actually done don't match( or at least didn't used to match).

If I remember correctly, you come in for the break in formation- lead kisses off, wing waits until lead is 90 degress off (or 5 sec, depending on the IPs interpretation of the rules- 90 degs comes quicker then 5 secs) and then breaks. Lead holds flaps off the 180 while wing lowers theirs for greater seperation. Lead lands on the side of the runway the exit is on and wing lands behind lead on the other side of the runway. I forget the seperation mins, but both aircraft are on the runway at the same time.

 

[wink]

Funny thing about T-34 Forms is that the Briefing guide, FTI and SOPs and the way things are actually done don't match( or at least didn't used to match).

If I remember correctly, you come in for the break in formation- lead kisses off, wing waits until lead is 90 degress off (or 5 sec, depending on the IPs interpretation of the rules- 90 degs comes quicker then 5 secs) and then breaks. Lead holds flaps off the 180 while wing lowers theirs for greater seperation. Lead lands on the side of the runway the exit is on and wing lands behind lead on the other side of the runway. I forget the seperation mins, but both aircraft are on the runway at the same time.

Sure, on the runway at the same time happens even with a decent interval. I have seen three Hoovers on the runway with a fourth on a short final. These guys were about 40 feet in trail. Hey, ok with me. I was just wondering is their Ops O would approve.

 

[Gatordev]

I'm not form qual'ed, so take this w/ a grain of salt (don't have an FTI w/ me), but I believe they now do section approaches in cruise forms.

 

[Brett327]

I'm not form qual'ed, so take this w/ a grain of salt (don't have an FTI w/ me), but I believe they now do section approaches in cruise forms.

Wonder why? Does any fleet aircraft do section landings? Prowlers do a section go, but terminate a section approach by either dropping wing off on the ball (w/ lead go around), or dragging wing on final for a normal interval. Curious how others do it.

Brett

 

[Schnugg]

No section landings in the F-14 community...Section go, yes.

 

[Snacks]

Yup, section approaches in cruise forms.

 

[Pags]

I think I remember doing something similar in forms in the T-34. We'd do a section approaches and then get a bit of seperation on final and lead would take one side of the runway, and wing the other.

 

[Harrier Dude]

We do section goes and "stream" section and division takeoffs (STOs). You could do a section landing, I suppose, but The Man would fry you if you fodded an engine. I briefed one once when I was an RP, but for some reason it didn't happen.

We typically do 2 second breaks or gain interval on straight-in final by using nozzles.

 

[Gatordev]

Wonder why? Does any fleet aircraft do section landings? Prowlers do a section go, but terminate a section approach by either dropping wing off on the ball (w/ lead go around), or dragging wing on final for a normal interval. Curious how others do it.

Brett

What Pags said. From what Wink wrote, it sounded like your example is kind of what they did. Develop a bit of interval but still land on the same runway at the same time.

For helos, we'd do section approaches if we didn't break. THen once over the runway, dash 2 would slip behind dash 1 one to get lined up to go in the pits.

 

[A4sForever]

What Pags said. ....

BUT ... that's not a section landing. A section landing is just that: tight all the way to touchdown ...

ACTUALLY ... sections landings were always against Navy SOP ... every once in a while they were done, anyway -- usually at an AF base or in CUBI. The greatest concern was someone blowing a tire and crossing the centerline or someone taking the midfield or longfield gear without prior warning (in which case you wouldn't be doing a section landing in the first place) --- thus potentially ruining everyone's day....

The Air Force used to do them all day long --- we'd always say they were stupid and just asking for it, until we did them, of course.

We frequently and regularly would put four aircraft on the runway at the same time during landing --- staggered and short interval --- as some have described above. Lead on the downwind side, #2 on the upwind side, #3 ... etc, etc. .... but that's not a section landing.

 

[Jay]

Wonder why?

Logic would state it's just another way to build good hand-eye coordination and pilot skills. I'm positive the AF still does formation/section approaches in Primary, though I've hard the students don't "always" land it.

 

[Pags]

I can't remember if they were called officially called section landings or they had some other name for them. But, the formation approach (not a break) was the section approach...someone who'd done them more recently remind me if you kiss off on final or not.

In HTs we did section approaches at a few rotor diameters, nothing like a tight parade though. As far as the real helo world goes I'll let someone with more than a flight worth of experience talk about the modifiers.

 

[nittany03]

Perhaps -2 was dorked up and was really supposed to be at a farther interval . . .

 

[A4sForever]

...the section approach...someone who'd done them more recently remind me if you kiss off on final or not...

I haven't done them for a while --- but tactical flying doesn't change too much with the passage of time.

"Kiss-off"?? ALWAYS ... the WINGMAN doesn't go anywhere without "permission" from the LEAD. On what you describe, the "kiss-off" is the signal for the WINGMAN to transition to the runway and/or take separation for landing ... or for the WINGMAN to land while the LEAD goes around for another approach.